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#1 aloha_spirit

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Posted 12 November 2004 - 05:23 PM

Due to the interest in Mormonism in the chat room, I thought I'd give all villagers the chance to ask questions. I will give the official response and my own opinion (should they differ).

First off, the Church has two official websites:
http://www.mormon.org geared to those wanting to know more about Mormonism
http://www.lds.org is more for members. Has a link to online version of our Scriptures.

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#2 Sammy_Da_Cat

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Posted 14 November 2004 - 10:55 AM

I checked out the site. It is very informative and has alot of good info on it. I think it gave me a better perspective on your belifes and the way you live your life. Its allways good to learn about different about the different paths we all walk.

Thanks again.

#3 anasuya

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Posted 14 November 2004 - 01:29 PM

It's been a few years since I last met with Mormon missionaries, but do I remember correctly that you believe we inherent our own planets when we die, on which we can "rule" or live with our loved ones? And also, that those who are not inducted into the Mormon church are not allowed to share this after-life existence with their families?

Ana
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#4 deadzone

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Posted 14 November 2004 - 03:24 PM

I have heard this as well, ana......Is this part of the religion or has this been a "Urban Legend".......

This has always concerned me......
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#5 Redhead

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Posted 14 November 2004 - 08:27 PM

Thanks, Aloha, I'll check out those sites. I did remember the title of that Orson Scott Card book - it's called Saints. Very good, but I don't remember the name of the main character, but that it is a true story.
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#6 Vampchick21

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Posted 14 November 2004 - 10:32 PM

I use the LdS Family Search site on a regular basis (many thanks from this genealogist for that!) and have found at least 2 ancestors that got missed from my family tree.

However, another genealogist warned me that the Family Search site was set up to 'gain more members', as in, if your ancestor(s) were listed in there, then the LdS church was claiming that said ancestor(s) were baptised in the Mormon church, thereby making you, the descendant, a Mormon as well.

I considered that to be bunk, mainly because the Family Search site covers a HUGE portion of the world, with records going back to far earlier than the founding of the Mormon Church (these two missing ancestors date back to the 17th century to give you an idea...and I found confirmation of several unconfirmed ancestors going back to the 16th century), so you can see why I considered that other genealogist's assumption to be foolish.

So, are you able to clear up that misconception? B)

And from me to your Church as a whole, many many many thanks for setting up the family search site (I even downloaded the fantastic family tree program provided to researchers for free!). Once I finalize the existance of Anna and Thomas in my family tree, they will thank you all too! :)

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#7 deadzone

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 11:04 AM

I am also interested in the meaning behind the under garments?
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#8 aloha_spirit

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 03:24 PM

It's been a few years since I last met with Mormon missionaries, but do I remember correctly that you believe we inherent our own planets when we die, on which we can "rule" or live with our loved ones? And also, that those who are not inducted into the Mormon church are not allowed to share this after-life existence with their families?

Ana

Yes, you heard correctly. It's part of the concept of "Eternal Progression."

After the resurrection, we are judged according to our works, thoughts, and intentions. We are sent to one of three degrees (or kingdoms) of glory: Celestial, Terrestial, and Telestial. An extremely small number of people will be cast into "Outer Darkness" (aka Hell).

Those in the Telestial Kingdom will enjoy the presence of the Holy Ghost.
Those in the Terrestrial Kingdom will be visited by Jesus.
Those in the Celestial Kingdom will live with the Father.

Since the Celestial Kingdom is our goal, I'll spend more time on it. One must be baptized into the LdS church (either in this life or by proxy) in order to receive this reward, but not all Mormons will go to the Celestial Kingdom. Also, everyone who dies before reaching the age of accountability automatically receives the highest glory.

If a family is "sealed" in an LdS temple, all family members who make it to the CK will still be a family. Our marriage ceremonies in the temple don't include the phrase "until death do us part." Again, this sealing can be done by proxy.

The Celestial Kingdom itself is divided into three levels, and those in the highest level will become gods and goddesses of their own worlds.

We believe that our Father was once mortal on another planet and progressed to godhood in the same manner.

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#9 MoonChild

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 03:30 PM

We believe that our Father was once mortal on another planet and progressed to godhood in the same manner.

That is very intriguing Aloha. This perhaps is the same thing that we in our belief call Salvation. The process of progressing towards that Godhood, is what is Karma and Reincarnation is all about. Great!

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#10 aloha_spirit

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 03:38 PM

I use the LdS Family Search site on a regular basis (many thanks from this genealogist for that!) and have found at least 2 ancestors that got missed from my family tree.

However, another genealogist warned me that the Family Search site was set up to 'gain more members', as in, if your ancestor(s) were listed in there, then the LdS church was claiming that said ancestor(s) were baptised in the Mormon church, thereby making you, the descendant, a Mormon as well.

I considered that to be bunk, mainly because the Family Search site covers a HUGE portion of the world, with records going back to far earlier than the founding of the Mormon Church (these two missing ancestors date back to the 17th century to give you an idea...and I found confirmation of several unconfirmed ancestors going back to the 16th century), so you can see why I considered that other genealogist's assumption to be foolish.

So, are you able to clear up that misconception? :P

And from me to your Church as a whole, many many many thanks for setting up the family search site (I even downloaded the fantastic family tree program provided to researchers for free!). Once I finalize the existance of Anna and Thomas in my family tree, they will thank you all too! :P

I was wondering when "baptism for the dead" would come up.

First off, the general genealogical database at http://www.familysearch.org is usable (both in submitting new names and searching) by anyone of any faith. Since it is an open system, there will be mistakes from time to time. Submitters are encouraged to document their sources, so you can judge the accuracy of the information.

Names submitted to the general database are not automatically submitted for proxy ordinances. There is a special program ("Temple Ready") which LdS use to clear names (IOW, make sure we don't waste time baptizing the same person a dozen times!) of their deceased relatives for proxy temple work.

We believe that LdS baptism (and a few other ordinances) are required for godhood. Therefore, we believe that everyone will have the opportunity to hear the gospel and accept or reject its ordinances.

That means that deceased faithful latter-day saints (and saints from prior dispensations) are performing missionary work among the dead. Worthy living LdS take the names of these dead people to the temple where they perform baptisms, endowments, and sealings by proxy. The deceased may accept or reject these ordinances. If / when they accept, it is as if they received them in life.

So, we're not forcing dead people into our ranks - they still have a choice.

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#11 Vampchick21

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 03:47 PM

Thanks Aloha! I figured what that other genealogist was telling me was just a complete misunderstanding of the whole thing. The proxy baptisim part is for the use of PRACTICING Mormons in regards to their own ancestors.

Frankly, I just love the Family Search site! I always figured that the LdS church set it up in order to share what geneological records they had with everyone, since families make up many branches, and...say...a practising Mormon who passed over in 1896 in Utah might have a non-Mormon branch of their family in New York who were looking for the records of the Utah branch. And it just grew from there. Now the search runs worldwide.

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#12 aloha_spirit

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 04:05 PM

I am also interested in the meaning behind the under garments?

I'll have to tread carefully on this one (indeed, for all question regarding the temple). I will stick to what our Prophets and Apostles already released to the world.

In the temple, we realize many ordinances. I've already answered questions about baptisms for the dead and "sealings" for the living and the dead. I even mentioned the "endowment" without giving a detailed description.

During the endowment, we make certain promises and are taught deep doctrine which can't be repeated outside the temple.

Our "temple garments" (or "garments of the holy priesthood") represent the garments of skin given by God to Adam and Eve when they were cast out of Eden. They remind us of te promises and covenants made in the temple.

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#13 anasuya

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 04:30 PM

Okay, gotta ask.... so if God was once mortal on another planet, and achieved Godhood status, that leads me to believe there are other mortals who have also achieved this. Why do we worship only one of them? Why THIS God, and not say... anyone who has died and reached the highest kingdom and rules over their own planets?

Also, is it true that you view the trinity as three seperate divine beings and not three aspects of one divine being?

And what is your take on the Virgin Mary?

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#14 aloha_spirit

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 05:27 PM

Okay, gotta ask.... so if God was once mortal on another planet, and achieved Godhood status, that leads me to believe there are other mortals who have also achieved this. Why do we worship only one of them? Why THIS God, and not say... anyone who has died and reached the highest kingdom and rules over their own planets?


We worhsip this God because He is the Father of our spirits. The other gods are worhipped on the planets they create.

The first of the Ten Commandments given to Moses was "I am the LORD thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Also, is it true that you view the trinity as three seperate divine beings and not three aspects of one divine being?


Yes, God the Father, God the Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct and separate Beings who make up the "Godhead" (governing council of this universe).

And what is your take on the Virgin Mary?


Mary was a wonderful and special lady. She was chosen by God to be the mother of His Only Begotten. We look to Mary and the other saints as examples, but we don't pray to them nor do we worship them.

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#15 aloha_spirit

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 01:33 PM

A deep discussion about Mormonism errupted elsewhere (off-topic for that thread), so I am continuing it here.

Look Aloha, you made a statement that I find laughable about being a non-denominational church and how the Mormons didn't splinter off of any denomination.  Where did it orginate then? Never mind, you'll find a way to change or reshape the facts to fit your beliefs.


I said that the Smith family were non-denominational Christians before that religious ferver went through their town. They believed in the Scriptures and lived Christian principles. They just never were baptized or joined any Church.

In 1830, no other denominations had a leader with the title of Prophet and a Quorum of Twelve Apostles. I still don't know of a sect (other than those in the Restoration Movement) that has a Quorum of the Seventy.


These are Mormon beliefs and terms. Hence, no need for them in any other Christian denomination. So, direct to where CHRIST talked about this Quorum. AND don't refer the a Lds publication. I prefer to the real deal, the good ole' generic bible.


I mentioned the book The Great Apostasy because James E Talmage does an excellent job at describing the situation. This book is not an official LdS publication. The quotes I posted were passages taken from the King James Version the Bible, as cited by Talmage in his work.

Luke 6:12-16 -- Jesus calls the Twelve Apostles

Luke 10:1 -- Jesus calls the Seventy

Acts 1:15-26 -- the Eleven choose an Apostle to take Judas' place.

Acts 14:23 -- Elders were called and ordianed in every congregation

Ephesians 2:19-22 mentions prophets and apostles

Ephesians 4:11 -- apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers

Philippians 1:1 -- bishops and deacons

You seem to focus on the fact that he brought back polygamy (which was practiced in Bible times, I might add).


And I might add two things: Good old SMithypoo, seduced several of the wives of other men and polygamy was not common for a Jew in Christ's time.


You do not understand sealings. Joseph Smith Jr was sealed to the wives of several men. This means that in the heavens, they will be Joseph's wives, but they continued to live with their earthly husbands during their mortal lives. There is no evidence that Joseph slept with any woman who was currently married to another man. Joseph did marry some then single women and had children with them.

As for my misconception about blacks:

<snip Joseph Fielding Smith quote >
-Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, pages 66-67


I would appreciate it if you would do your own research and not just copy anti-mormon tracts.

Most of what Joseph Fielding Smith said has been sanitized to separate the doctrine from his somewhat wild ideas and "folk knowledge" of the time. Non-cannonized sources can show what was the common belief (and the opinions of the leaders) but only cannonized revelation (as found in the Doctrine and Covenants), General Conference talks, and notices signed by the First Presidency AND the Twelve should be taken as absolute doctrine.

Go read the Book of Mormon, check out http://www.mormon.org then come back with what we really believe.


No thank you. I would rather read what Christ said. Which you got to admit a bunch of different guys wrote at different times and were pretty close in what each other was reporting.


Why must it be one or the other? And who is to say that Christ didn't inspire the prophets of the Book of Mormon like he did the prophets and apostles of the Old World?

First a rebuke from the Lord as recorded by Nephi:

Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible.  Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?  Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.


I am at a slight disadvantage in this debate. I cannot fully attack the Bible, since it also our Scripture, but you have no such ties to the Book of Mormon. My invitation to read this other volume of Scripture is for you to see firsthand how distorted some of the rumors about Mormonism are. I am no longer a full-time missionary. I'm only here to dispell misconceptions and to answer questions. What you do with what you learn is up to you.

I know this debate has been quite heated, almost on the verge of getting out of control. However, I still consider you to be my friend. You are as passionate about Catholicism as I am about Mormonism.

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