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Communion Denied


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#16 anasuya

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 04:58 PM

Petunia, please refrain from using such harsh language on this board, as it is a place where we can all come to discuss religion in a tolerable manner.

Vampchick, I understand your distress and I hope we can put this behind us. You've raised several valid points and I thank you for the links you provided because I was not aware of the history behind the communion wafer.

Personally, I feel the church should make an exception, but I'm not Catholic (or haven't been for many many years) and I'm not truly appreciative of the act of communion, admittedly so. I just find it sad that this poor little girl is denied a part of her faith, an important part, because the church cannot make allowances for medical conditions.

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#17 Holly

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 06:38 PM

Vamp, I went to the site you posted, so I could learn a little more about this disease.
The site has a section devoted to this issue - Here is a link for the letter which Haley's mother wrote to Cardinal Ratzinger.

http://www.csaceliac...ertoVatican.php

Would you know if he is a liaison to the Vatican?


There has to be a workable solution to this problem - I think it's sad that a child wants so very much to be part of her religion, and is denied that opportunity.
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#18 Vampchick21

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 06:43 PM

Well, I went to look him up...I left the Catholic Church for my own reasons many years ago, so I'm only really familar with who the Pope is anymore...lol.

But guess what?  Cardinal Ratzinger has a fan club.

No, not kidding.

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/

Apparently he's the Grand Inquisitor...which of course springs to my mind the whole Spanish Inquisition skit from Monty Python's Flying Circus.

But in this case, he may well be the person to approach in this particular case.

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#19 Holly

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 07:14 PM

**Sigh...there's even a gift shop on the site...

LOL@ the Monty Python reference...My mind went there right along with you.

Well, I'm just outdone now...


I hope things work out for the young lady, via The Grand Inquisitor or the Pope himself.
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#20 Willow

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 07:55 PM

That is truly disheartening, I agree with what Haley's mother wrote to Cardinal Ratzinger..."This is a church rule, not God's will, and it can easily be adjusted to meet the needs of the people, while staying true to the traditions of our faith"
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#21 flyingorb

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 05:31 AM

Well, Catholics have the right to make determinations concerning the practice of their particular faith, as do all other religions.  If someone finds it unacceptable and cannot get an exemption, then they always have the option to seek a faith more compatable with their needs.

Frankly, I think all Christiandom has made too much of this and turned it into an unintended ritual.  Jesus was reclining with his disciples and others eating.  He simply said to eat the bread and drink the wine in rememberance of Him.  I think He intended it as a constant reminder and acknowledgement of His coming sacrifice.  I don't think the intent was to make an iron-clad ritual to make the "magic" work.  

Just the opinion of one Conservative Anarchist Christian Heretic.  [smiley=cwm1.gif]
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#22 secretsign

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 08:19 AM

To me the symbolism shoud me the most important not the ingredients. This is what leave a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing.
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#23 hawkerdriver

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 10:34 AM

Well, well, well.  Did ya' guys think I would let this slip by without weighing in????

Ignorance leads to hate.  I'm thinking if someone 'hates' something then that's the absolute first thing they should educate themselves about. Usually education relieves hate which is usually the result of fear.

I've always been amused at non-Catholics take on Catholicism.  I've been told that we worship Saints, and other such nonsense.  These all come about as the result of ignorance.

I read about this a couple of days ago.  One of my flight students had this disease.  It's a VERY difficult disease to live with.  THe hives all over the skin is so excruciating that many people who have suffered from this disease often commit suicide.

I think that the Mother of this girl is doing the right thing.  Some sort of arrangement should be made to provide for this child's situation.  We've added ramps so that wheel chairs have access to the pews so why not a simple rice wafer for this child who wants to be part of the mass and member of her parish?  

Remember folks that communion is a direct decedent of Passover at which unleavened (how do you spell that Vamp?) bread is part of the dinner ritual.  The church really stays with tradition closely.  

I hope that it turns out well.  If the church is inflexible on this simple issue I will be sorely disappointed.
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#24 petunia4998

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 12:41 PM

Vampchick, although I think you completely overreacted to what I said about the church because it was in no way directed to you, I will apologise because you were not singled out.  I will not, however, apologise for what I said about the church.  I think it is possible that you are not quite aware of your church's history; Pope Pius XII thought Hitler was a good man and a great leader and I don't think think even you can think the real Inquisition was a laughable matter.  The Catholic church's history is rife with appalling episodes like that.  Not a very godly thing.
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#25 Vampchick21

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Posted 21 August 2004 - 01:01 PM

Darling, I am fully aware of the history of the Catholic Church, from the Early Church Fathers to modern times.  

I am also fully aware, although YOU might not be, that Pope John Paul II has apologized in the offical manner for the above mention and and other incidents.

http://www.cin.org/jp2/univpray.html

http://www.vatican.v...-pardon_en.html

Oh, and one other little factoid you seem to have overlooked, making it plainly obvious that you never read any of my past posts on this particular board, I am a witch and Pagan.  I was raised Catholic in a loving Catholic family however, and am personally quite proud of that fact.

So, darling Petunia...since the Church has indeed offically acknowledged it's past errors, mistakes and sins, should YOU not let bygones be bygones and forgive?  Or would you much rather just sit there letting your rather pointless hate fester and make you bitter?  Judging by your words in this particular thread, I'm disinclined to consider you 'godly' in any sense of the word.

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#26 petunia4998

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 04:08 PM

Well, he can apologise all he wants, but it's still going on.  That's why I have such a problem.  I have no idea why your buttons have been pushed, but it seems fairly easy to do.  And speaking of your loving upbringing, what happened to it?  At any rate, everybody needs somebody to pick on; if I'm the one you want to berate, go ahead.  I could care less what you think of me, so go ahead and blast me as much as you want.  I am pleased to serve that function for you.  Perhaps someday you might apologise too, but I won't hold my breath.  You need to get the anger out.
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#27 deadzone

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 05:29 PM

I would be much more afraid of the Religious Right and its kidnapping of "morality", rhetoric and behaviour that threatens basic human rights.

Tell me petunia4998, why would you single out this religion based on the above statements alone?
Since the beginning of Organized religion skeletons lurk in every crevice.
Because of its media attention the Catholic Church has gotten a raw deal, let me be the first to inform you, every religion has its negative backgrounds, Mormonism, Christianity, etc etc etc....I could shove those down the throats of the this forum, however, I am not inclined to do so. I have faith the church will accomodate this child and others like her, its a matter of time, they do hold tradition very sacred.
By the way, I am a Catholic, so enough bashing, please....
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#28 freyjasdottir

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 06:27 PM

Petunia,

You upset more than Vampchick with your tirade.  There are a number of Catholics on the site from all the factions plus those who grew up Catholic and have been looking into other faiths.  No one can change the past and I'm not sure anyone would truly want to, you do not learn by being perfect you learn through mistakes.
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#29 Vampchick21

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 06:31 PM

Well said deadzone and masquerade!  

And petunia darling dear.  Stick a sock in it.  You haven't got a clue.  Like deadzone, I too could sit here and point out every single evil or sin pertetuated by any given religious systems, but why bother?  It would only hurt and anger people who practice and believe in that.

As for my anger, well, it was specifically raised by you by your comments.  I most certainly am not one of those pathetic creatures that you seem to think I am.  And for the record, I see absolutely NO reason to apologize for calling you to task for your harsh, thoughtless and uncaring comments that are indeed hurtful to the Catholics on this board.  

So I'm done with you.  

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#30 deadzone

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 07:15 PM

Can I hear a Amen...Whoops wrong religion....Thanks Vamp......:)
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