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Communion Denied


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#31 Vampchick21

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 07:26 PM

LOL!!!!

Well, now...let's roll to something a tad more pleasant and still slightly on-topic.

My Catholic upbringing was culturally tinged with the Anglo-Irish.  Very staid...if that's the right word.  Basically, the only processions were actually within the church itself, and it was those who were recieving a First Sacrament.  So, naturally, because this was what I knew, this is what I thought all Catholics around the world did.

Until I moved to Toronto.  :)  Name a nation, there's folks living here from there.

So, my first encounter with 'Cultural Catholic' for lack of a better term was with a Catholic Church around the corner from my apartment building, and the congregation was mainly Eastern European.  On Mother's Day they proceeded from the Church doors, around I think...3 city blocks and back to the church in celebration of the Virgin Mary.  

My next started three years ago when we moved into a Portugese/Brazilian neighbourhood.  I'm right across the street from the Church, Rectory and Parish Hall.  They too proceed from the church, around 3 or 4 city blocks every few weeks it seem...and I'm not yet sure what they are celebrating or commemorating (language barrier).  They have a band that on occassion will lead them.  On Good Friday, they have a LOOOOONG procession, including the carrying of an efigy of Christ after He was taken down from the cross.  This in particular I had never seen before, since my childhood parish had nothing more spectacular than a group of parishiners performing a passion play in the nave.

So I thought it most interesting to see things like this.  

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#32 deadzone

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 07:31 PM

Vamp:
Being born in Spain and Basque, I had no choice but to follow the ways of my people, LOL....Coming to America, I have found the Catholic Church a little more liberal in their views and customs.  They are "big" on tradition, I may not always agree with their sometimes rigid traditions, but the church still holds for me a mystery....
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#33 mellilotflower

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 02:13 AM

It's those processions which are causing some trouble in Ireland isn't it- and to a lesser degree Scotland.  And also the tradition that dictates the routes.  

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#34 Vampchick21

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:19 AM

Hmm...but I think in Ireland in particular, it's slightly different than here in Canada.  As far as I know, based on what I've read and what I've been told, in Ireland, Northern Ireland in particular, religion and politics and national identity have been woven tightly together...hence a Catholic religious procession deliberitly weaving through a Protestant neighbourhood, or visa versa, is going to cause trouble...whereas here in Canada or the US, it's exactly what it is...a simple procession commemorating a saint or particular religious date like Good Friday.

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#35 Vampchick21

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:23 AM

Vamp:
Being born in Spain and Basque, I had no choice but to follow the ways of my people, LOL....Coming to America, I have found the Catholic Church a little more liberal in their views and customs.  They are "big" on tradition, I may not always agree with their sometimes rigid traditions, but the church still holds for me a mystery....



I think that in the US and in Canada, because these two countries have so many people from so many backgrounds, that its bound to change the outward view of the Church.  

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#36 Holly

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:49 AM

Vamp,

I was born and raised Catholic as well, and was only about 8 years old when I knew it was not for me - Still, I continued through Catholic schools right through High School - Maybe I was trying to please my dad, who was devout.

The initial reason for my denial of the Church is that, in second grade, I was told by a nun that after my mother died, I would never see her again because she is not Catholic, and she would spend eternity in hell. Yup, those were the exact words, and I was terrified.

As I grew older, I learned that my father had been married way before he married my mom. While he was serving in the military, his wife left him, and so he was divorced, through no choice of his own. Fortunately for me, he then met my very beautiful mother!! But, due to his status as a divorced man, he was no longer permitted to take Communion, go to Confession, etc...

Still, he practiced his faith on a daily basis.

Many years later, a certain priest entered the parish, decided that that was so wrong, contacted the Vatican, and after much determination and hard work, my father was granted a "Special Dispensation", so he could partake of Communion and Confession again.

And so my question to this day is: Why does the Catholic Church make it so difficult for a member to practice their faith? Well, I know that's kind of an all-encompassing statement, but I'm thinking of other stories I've heard, which have resulted in members falling away from the Church and looking for something more, somewhere else.
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#37 Vampchick21

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:58 AM

Honestly, I think it depends on the priest, the bishop or archbishiop in any given parish or diocese.  All I honestly know is that should I myself wish to return to the Catholic Church, all I have to do is go to confession, mean it when I confess, accept and perform my penance and then go through something called "Sacrament of Reconcilliation", of which I don't know what it entails, and I'm in again, no questions asked.  :)  I asked.

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#38 hawkerdriver

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:58 AM

Hello all.

Petunia, you are very welcome to your opinion.  Please know however that when one makes their opinions public then there's going to be backlash, and unfortunately in your case the backlash will highlight the fact that your opinion (notice I said YOUR OPINIONS- NOT YOU)are predujiced as well as utterly ignorant. When one makes the kind of statement you have, then becoming the 'victim' is laughable.  I challenge you to educate yourself about the Catholic faith (both good and bad) and then air your opinions.  I also would like to point out something:  The Catholic church is over 2000 years old.  I think that there's going to be some dirty laundry going on during that length of time.  But what's impressive to me is that there has to be something to the Church for it to continue to exist.  That's why I challenge you to educate yourself about it.  Confront your hate- write down everything you disdain about Catholicism and then go research it.  You may be surprised.  Then again, with your preconceived notions this may be difficult for you.  The only thing else I have to say about this is:  I've noticed as I've gotten older my predujices continue to fall away.  The only ones I still hold onto are: 1)Hate groups- skinheads, nazis, black panthers, etc.  2)Lawyers.

Yes, the Catholic parishes in the US are considerably lenient versus the rest of the world.  I've often wondered if this is eventually going to cause a schism with the Vatican.  But then again you can't have a church this large without various cultures putting their own spin on it.
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#39 Vampchick21

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:05 AM

Yes, the Catholic parishes in the US are considerably lenient versus the rest of the world.  I've often wondered if this is eventually going to cause a schism with the Vatican.  But then again you can't have a church this large without various cultures putting their own spin on it.


And it's the cultural thing that has my fascination right now.  :)  I really need to figure out which saint or saints or whathaveyou is/are being honoured in these processions with the church across from me.  I know the church itself is dedicated to St. Helen, which I'm guessing is the mother of Constantine.  (one of the symbols they carry is a crown, and frankly, that's the ONLY St. Helen I know of).

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#40 hawkerdriver

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:08 AM

I hear you Holly.  The church does seem to make it difficult some times.  But I could guess that with the size of the church they have to be fairly rigid or you'll end up like the Baptists- Southern Baptists, First Baptist, etc.  Being rigid is probably the only way to keep everyone on the same page. Maybe I'm sneaky but there are a lot of things I just don't think is the Church's business.  One is birth control.  I'm Catholic but lemme tell you, when the Pope decides that he'll pay for all my offspring's expenses then I have more kids but until then ain't no one elses business.  I consider myself a 'thinking Catholic'.  I use common sense and go from there.
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#41 hawkerdriver

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:11 AM

Vamp- Willow is a Saint guru.  Ask her.  Saints are a hobby of hers.








My middle name is HELEN!!!!
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#42 little_light

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:14 AM

Im not catholic..or in any religion!
But respect is needed at all times!

Petunia,
There are ways to get your points..thoughts..beliefs..Across without being so rude...!

Religion is a very touchy subject and there are so many concepts on religion!

There is wrong doing in ALL RELIGION!...But you cant blame the religion itself..But you can balme the ones who has done the wrong...

You have a bag of apples..There are 12 good ones and 1 bad one!...Do you throw all the apples away?...No! You throw that 1 apple away and keep the 12 good ones!

Just look at like that!...There are very good people in the catholic religion! Dont down talk them! And dont use what someone else said or done to judge them all!..

Really dont even judge them!..Who are you to throw the first stone?

That little girl deserves the right to speak up and stand in what she belives in!
Now I do think it was wrong for them to do that to her....But I know how she feels!

I use to be a christian...And I was told that I couldnt be baptized with tatoos...And that I was a sinner because of it....That is just one thing that some preachers/ministers told me!....SOME!...not all!....My mom is still a christian and so is my sister...I KNOW they dont think or belive that way...

So just use better words to express what you think..or how you feel! You will get much more out of others and yourself if you do!

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#43 NocturnalCantaloupe

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:14 AM

You know, I should have known this kind of thread would start an interesting errr.... discussion.  heheh!

Yes, religious topics will always bring a powerful "glisten" to people's opinions.  I guess I don't see much harm in it, even if you lock horns on these issues.  Just please remember than once you're out of the thread (read, "ring" heheh) we're all on the same team. Well, hopefully anyway.

 I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand many of the Catholic doctrines.  I'll also say that I disagree, but it's problaby due to lack of understanding.  Thankyou for putting some things in persepective Hawker.   ;D

 You know, this bringing up of old dirt about what this person did or this organization did can be fruitless, because NO person, NO group is squeeky clean in all aspects.  That is of course, my thinking on it and maybe not anyone elses.  I could be wrong as well.


Also, good angle on it Flying, that's pretty much my point of view as well.  I'm not one for turning something that possibly had a different, even more personal meaning, and then turning it into this massive ritual with rules oozing from every crevice of the original thought.  I think the original message gets lost that way.  Though it's been said elsewhere on this board, that we as humans have a tendency to put more complete rules and reasons behind things.  I think when doing so, we lose the original gift.

It's really the reason I stopped going to church myself.  I found what Jesus said was not always carried on or heeded as time went on according to the rest of the new testiment- main with Paul.



 Anyway, I've babbled long enough.
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#44 little_light

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:45 AM

I agree Akthra!
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#45 Willow

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 07:28 AM

And it's the cultural thing that has my fascination right now.  :)  I really need to figure out which saint or saints or whathaveyou is/are being honoured in these processions with the church across from me.  I know the church itself is dedicated to St. Helen, which I'm guessing is the mother of Constantine.  (one of the symbols they carry is a crown, and frankly, that's the ONLY St. Helen I know of).


The only other saints I can come up with associated with crowns are Elizabeth of Hungary,Catherine (of Alexandria) and Dorothy (of Caesarea)

I agree with Hawkers, most people that oppose other religions probably have never took the time to actually research it, get the whole truth about it and not just go on secondary information
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