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NEWS - Psychologist bids to create....


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#76 TKE448

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Posted 03 September 2003 - 05:22 AM

Gregory,  first off, I want to apologize for the posts the other day.  I wasn't intending to vent in a way that you would take personally.  You are pretty informative, and I can tell that you have done your research.  So, I would appreciate it greatly if you would accept my apology.

Also, is Wiseman particularily looking for paranormal investigators for this experiment?  That last post was a bit fuzzy to me.  I mean the average person off from the street wouldn't want to be put into a situation where they may become startled, scared, or develop certain feelings that this experiment may cause, whereas, paranormal junkies, would love the experience.
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#77 KarenSue1973

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Posted 03 September 2003 - 11:28 AM

Gregory,  I am sorry but you are right.  It is morally right for this psychologist to perform this expirement.  Its going to hard for him to explain that there wasn't a ghost.  The instructor got a kick out of the article.  
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#78 Gregory

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Posted 03 September 2003 - 12:31 PM

Gregory,  first off, I want to apologize for the posts the other day.  I wasn't intending to vent in a way that you would take personally.  You are pretty informative, and I can tell that you have done your research.  So, I would appreciate it greatly if you would accept my apology.

The only person I responded to yesterday was Mykiedave.  Are you the same person?  If so, I accept your apology.  If not, I still accept it, but I’m not sure what you think you need to apologize for.

Also, is Wiseman particularily looking for paranormal investigators for this experiment?  That last post was a bit fuzzy to me.  I mean the average person off from the street wouldn't want to be put into a situation where they may become startled, scared, or develop certain feelings that this experiment may cause, whereas, paranormal junkies, would love the experience.


After reading the article on the first page, you know as much about this experiment as I do (I tried to research it further, but it doesn’t seem to be mentioned elsewhere online or in any of the journals my college has access to).  It would certainly make sense to use paranormal researchers, since they’re the ones who would be best qualified to judge whether the house seems genuine.

At any rate, many people seem to love being startled and scared.  Otherwise, movies like Scream and Friday the Thirteenth wouldn’t be so popular.
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#79 stevenedel

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 12:39 AM

I doubt that the subjects in Wiseman's experiment will need any special qualifications. Usually experiments like this work best if subjects are neutral members of the general public.
As far as I have understood his setup, he will simply put them in front of a computer terminal, offer certain stimuli that either are or are not similar to certain characteristics of a supposedly haunted location, and ask the subject to record his experiences/feelings on some kind of questionnaire. There will be nothing spectacular or scary about it.
If subjects under the 'haunted' stimuli condition report the same kind of experiences as previous subjects in the Edinburgh vaults, and the others don't, that will demonstrate that 'ghostly' experiences people have are not particular to the 'haunted' location, i.e., don't require a ghost.
Of course, if people under the experimental condition do feel a ghostly presence you might argue that the ghost moved into Wiseman's lab, or even that the stimuli in question in fact conjure up real ghosts... but all that seems a bit far-fetched, doesn't it? No doubt Wiseman will in that case apply Ockham's razor, which states that the least far-fetched explanations are usually the best, and stick to the conclusion that people's minds generate certain feelings in response to certain environments.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. (Carl Sagan)

#80 TKE448

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 05:19 AM

Gregory,

The apology came from my comments on the 28th.

I am the person who was griping about the way that scientists do not take paranormal research seriously...I just felt that you may have taken it personally is all.  And I didn't intend for that to happen.
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#81 Bangin

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 06:00 AM

and stick to the conclusion that people's minds generate certain feelings in response to certain environments.


Isn't this a 'given'?  

However, these generated 'feelings' cannot account for ALL experiences outside of this experiment.  It will only account for some experiences.  Yes, it helps to know that not ALL reports of hauntings are correct.  Other than that, I don't see how this experiment will benefit the question on whether or not ghosts exist.  To each his own, I suppose.
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#82 Gregory

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 07:55 AM

Gregory,

The apology came from my comments on the 28th.

I am the person who was griping about the way that scientists do not take paranormal research seriously...I just felt that you may have taken it personally is all.  And I didn't intend for that to happen.


Water under the bridge.  I was momentarily offended, but I would never hold a grudge over something like that.  But your apology is appreciated and, as I said, accepted.
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#83 TKE448

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 08:50 AM

Thanks Gregory.  I just hated the thoughts that I might have offended someone in the great community, especially someone who puts a lot of research into the topic that they are talking about.

I agree that many people love the adrenaline rush that comes from being startled, scared, etc. (myself included), but the point that I had originally set about trying to ascertain was would someone who had no inkling of what could happen when they go into the house (I mean, they just people off the street to go into the house, without any knowledge of what is going on) might not like to be subjected to the stimuli.  Whereas, the paranormal researchers probably wouldn't mind it a bit.
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#84 stevenedel

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 09:55 AM

Other than that, I don't see how this experiment will benefit the question on whether or not ghosts exist


I don´t think that is the question he is trying to answer. He´s just trying to find an alternative (and simpler)explanation for experiences people have, and that are often interpreted as ghost-related.

Obviously that will never prove that ALL hauntings are false. However, it will learn us that in the case of many, if not all hauntings, simple and natural explanations may apply instead of mysterious, supernatural ones. Wiseman (or anybody else) can never disprove the existence of ghosts. He can however reduce the number of reasons to assume their existence, and therefore the likelihood that they exist.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. (Carl Sagan)

#85 Gregory

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 11:27 AM

I mean, they just people off the street to go into the house, without any knowledge of what is going on.


I think that everyone involved will have to be told the truth, or at least lied to in such a way that they still have a good idea what's going on; otherwise, how would Wiseman get informed consent (which is the same in England as in America)?
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#86 KarenSue1973

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 02:13 PM

Has Wiseman actually gone through with the expirement yet?  I am wondering what is going on with that.  I would really like to know if he was actually able to create a haunted house that was almost like a real one and how his test subjects came through it.  
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#87 Gregory

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 02:53 PM

Has Wiseman actually gone through with the expirement yet?  I am wondering what is going on with that.  I would really like to know if he was actually able to create a haunted house that was almost like a real one and how his test subjects came through it.  


No; he hasn't even found anyone who's willing to finance him yet.  The project isn't scheduled to begin for several years.
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#88 DSF

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 03:16 PM

I'd like to pop in here for a minute and thank you guys for keeping this thread going the way it is!  It is awesome to see such a discussion take place and see how everyone respects everyone else.  So a big THANKS from me.

I've been watching this thread with interest as it has taken me back to my days as a psych major.  I can see both sides of the discussion, but I would think this would be a very expensive and lengthy project.  He would need 3 houses, and they would have to be mirror images of each other for it to be a valid experiment.  But it sounds more like he is trying to study fear and not the paranormal, at least that is my impression.  I don't think this experiment is a straigh forward as it appears.....

#89 KarenSue1973

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 06:10 AM

You are right in order for it to be a valid expirement he would need 3 houses.  One that is actually haunted, one that is rigged and one that is normal.  I believe that is how most expirements are run to get rid of the placebo effect.  I will have to double check my text books.
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#90 Bangin

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 07:07 AM

Here is a link to an article in which spooky phenomena is attributed to infrasound.   ::)  Once again, this may explain some experiences, but cannot 'explain away' all of them.

http://www.msnbc.com...0.asp?0dm=C14LT
First voice: "Where is he...around here?"Second voice: "He's dead."First voice: "Ah, he could be anywhere then."




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