161 replies to this topic

[star_2_glitter_4_u]

Quote

Der_TodesEngel Posted on Today at 7:12 am
  Dear star_2_glitter_4_u

Let me start of by say ing that Yes i know how it feels 2 have hate in your live 4 i deal with it every day.

and yes ther wos a time in my live were i did like 2 b in the light of god (the GOD u know) but that wos not 4 me, and is still not 4 me!!!

"Do you feel you can always have just one without the other ?"
NO thav u heard of the Jing-Jang? (if not the Jing-Jang said that thers a litel bit of good in evil and a litel evil in good)

and 4 me
i`m just plain Evil wen i Need 2 b and wen i wont 2 b i dont have time 4 b ing the "Good person" it will get u no were in live.

ow Yes i`m a atheist just 2 let u know but believe me, Evil Know`s Evil.

Angel`s and Devils is the same thing, thay r just not on the some side.
4 every reaction ther`s an = and totaly opisit reaction.
it`s live`s way off = every thing out.
2 believe in the one u have 2 believe in the other. 

the  is just as real as GOD.

Todes

I think Todes you take life as a "Tug of war" in which , both "good/evil" are pulling you in 2 directions , so you are letting the evil have the greater strength at this time in your life.

If you could answer this please...You say for every good action , there is a bad reaction and say this is a "balance" in life....A "give and take" thing in life does not balance out unless people are willing to do both.

You stated that there was a time when you wanted to be in the light of God and share the goodness that is within you. At this time , were you receiving the light omited from others with all their goodness ? Why was this not the life for you?

Do you wish to be treated with kindness ? , if so then you have to shine all your kindness to others.

Do you want to be treated with hate , unkind feelings , if so you have to show this to others.

Is this the = you refer to ?

There is a time for everything and you have to know what you want to put into life so you can take out what you want.

Please do not think I am trying to tell you how to live , I am just sharing my thoughts on your outlook on life.

You have every right to live the way you choose , but I do hope you find the "good" winning the battle over "evil" and happiness (if you want it ) will enter your life.

Starla***

Quote

chillartist Posted on Today at 3:09 pm
  Very interesting debate here ,althugh im not a fan of said topic.I tend to belive in my h -opinion that as with most things we cast our own morals and beliefs to things we dont understand or trouble us.Ive always had trouble beliving that higher powers would perscribe to our thoughts ,if they exsist (and i do belive in a creator )i think theyd be above our moral scale such as good and evil as we percieve it.Oh just one more time i dont belive in warrens although i guess it is a free country every one can make a buck

Do you mean people cast the bad to the demom/evil ? And the good to our God/creator ?
I guess what ever we are programed to , to make sure we know the difference , right

On the Warrens......It is hard to know what goes on and what people see & hear. If you saw a ghost walk past you and know you saw this....how would you convince others ? That is difficult.....So with these people , maybe they do see/hear all this paranormal doings , and that's cool , but if it's just for the money...."not cool"

Quote

krcguns Posted on Yesterday at 11:59 am
  I am not saying that all religion is a scam to rip people off. I was simply stating where I believe that the demons and devils stories come from. I know that churches do a lot of good too.

I don't think I have to worry about encountering any demons or devils and I also don't condemn anyone for their beliefs. They are certainly welcome to them just as I am to mine.

Well Brian evil had to derive from somewhere , I'm not calling this demons/devils , just plain old "evil"

Maybe the churches did come up with this as well as "goodness" , who knows
Let me re-word that.... " Do you believe in evil spirits" ?

I mean all spirits can not be good , right ? As I said , I think demons/devils are words that seem more harsh than the word evil spirit.

And as far as your beliefs...you are welcomed to whatever you please Brian..........Starla***

[Rockhauler2k1]

Evil had to derive from somewhere? Not really .

Evil is a matter of perception isnt it ? What may be evil to one may be the truth , the way and the light to another . There are people that worship the Devil. They are just as blind in their faith as those who believe in God or Jesus or Budda and so on. They have never met him in person .

Demons and Devils are a creation of the mind .

Have any of you ever seen one? Can anyone produce absoulte proof of their existance? Ive never seen any evidence personally . If any of you have please share it with us.

In relation to spirits , there are interactive and residual energies not good and bad. Again , good and bad are perception.


Rockhauler2k1

[aloha_spirit]

Let me paraphrase a few Scriptures. There must be opposition in all things. You cannot recognize the sweet without passing through the bitter. Virtue is offset by vice.

I believe in the Father as being absolute good. I also believe in a very real devil. All mortals worship both to some degree by the choices they make.

I believe spirits maintain the same personality from when they were alive. The same entity may be benevolent at times and violent at others.

[star_2_glitter_4_u]

Quote

Rockhauler2k1 Posted on Today at 9:56 am
  Evil had to derive from somewhere? Not really .

Evil is a matter of perception isnt it ? What may be evil to one may be the truth , the way and the light to another . There are people that worship the Devil. They are just as blind in their faith as those who believe in God or Jesus or Budda and so on. They have never met him in person .

Demons and Devils are a creation of the mind .

Have any of you ever seen one? Can anyone produce absoulte proof of their existance? Ive never seen any evidence personally . If any of you have please share it with us.

In relation to spirits , there are interactive and residual energies not good and bad. Again , good and bad are perception.


Rockhauler2k1 

I am just wondering Rock , how this insight came about. I mean people grasped onto what they felt is right , then others may of came about and had to have told them this is wrong or showed them a different way...or vice/versa.
People have their own perception true , but they also know what is good and what is bad by reaction from others. Some do not care , some care very much.

So the difference is known and so evil/good could have derived from this somehow.

You can not see feelings from another person , but the feelings are there.

You know you are loved by people , but do you see this , no you feel it with your senses.

You know you are not liked or feel negitive feelings from people , but do you see this ? Again you do not have to see the negitive feeling , but use your insight within you.

So this could be what people mean when they know an evil presence is among them.

Quote

aloha_spirit Posted on Today at 10:58 am
  Let me paraphrase a few Scriptures. There must be opposition in all things. You cannot recognize the sweet without passing through the bitter. Virtue is offset by vice.

I believe in the Father as being absolute good. I also believe in a very real devil. All mortals worship both to some degree by the choices they make.

I believe spirits maintain the same personality from when they were alive. The same entity may be benevolent at times and violent at others.

I like that.."Virture is offset by vice "

So mortals have to see both to know the difference and the ones that choose the path in which they know is not good are the ones that I do agree take on the spirit of the chosen evil life they lived.

You may not see these entities , but feel the negitive force they omit.

Starla***

[matt32]

although this is late to when u wrote it i write to tell u to look up father gabriel amorth.. make ur own conclusions... peace

[Markway]

There is a God and He has a Son. He employs angels. There is a Devil, and there are demons, and things which, if they are not demons might as well be.

The universe, or the Multiverse as I prefer to call it stretches in all directions at once. For some purposes it is simler to think of it as stretching from side to side and up and down as well.

To admit belief in this here will make me few friends. I have been advised that most Ghost Villagers are loosely aligned members of a kind of Spiritualism which admits to a "Light", without identifying it, but admits to no Hell or devil.

The Skeptocs here believe in the Scientific Faith, and do not believe in any spiritual aspect of life whatsoever.

I have seen and experienced good and evil, and I have seen Good and Evil. Man is capable of the first set, but needs help to graduate to the second.

Man's sins are mostly petty and revolve around theft and anger; steal someone's, life, money, spouse, time, adulation, etc, or lose your control and simply destroy.

Examine the deeper levels and you always find something more and it is horrible to witness.

Just so virtue. Most of our virtue revolve around giving, and creation; give love, give time, give posession, give ourselves, some of us create something special and wonderful that has the power to exalt the many. But again, examine the truly good and we need God to point the way.

Okay, I've said my piece, now flay me!

[MoonChild]

Markway, on Aug 7 2005, 01:34 PM, said:

There is a God and He has a Son.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry for going off topic here. God, He, Son!!!!!! Where is the feminine essence? Where is the power that gives birth and controls everything?

[Markway]

MoonChild, on Aug 7 2005, 04:40 AM, said:

Markway, on Aug 7 2005, 01:34 PM, said:

There is a God and He has a Son.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry for going off topic here. God, He, Son!!!!!! Where is the feminine essence? Where is the power that gives birth and controls everything?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I can see the "gives birth" part, but "controls everything"? It's not that way around my house! I prefer the cooperative approach!

I'm not sure that God has a gender, although perhaps God's personality is more like the male stereotype, accounting for His choice of words and sex. (Only in MY religion of course, you have full rights and privileges to believe as you will).

On the other hand, I have never noticed the Roman Catholic Church ignoring Mary, Christ's earthly mother.

In my opinion, far too much emphasis is placed upon gender in religion. I have seen feminists become Wiccans' solely because the religion is based upon a Mother Goddess.

In the most recent copy of FATE magazine, August, 2005, a purported wiccan sorceroress cum aromatherapist, exorcizes a spirit using herbs and the Holy Trinity. Do I detect an aroma of confusion here?

By the way, why do ghost dislike sage? Bad Thanksgiving's?

[Oniix]

You may have solved it right there Markway, all ghosts share a common thread- bad thanksgivings. There, it's all done, we can all go home now, the case is solved.

[aloha_spirit]

MoonChild, on Aug 7 2005, 03:40 AM, said:

Sorry for going off topic here. God, He, Son!!!!!! Where is the feminine essence? Where is the power that gives birth and controls everything?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eliza R Snow said:

I have learned to call thee Father
Thru thy Spirit from on high,
But until the key of knowledge
Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heav'ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I've a mother there.

When I leave this frail existence,
When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you
In your royal courts on high?
Then, at length, when I've completed
All you sent me forth to do,
With your mutual approbation
Let me come and dwell with you.

Elohim is a plural word often translated to the singular God. I believe that when used the plural, this includes the Father and his wife (wives?) as if they are a council acting as one.

[skeiilon]

Jamison, on May 12 2005, 02:15 AM, said:

What's your guy's take on Ed & Lorraine Warren?

http://www.warrens.net/

Are they frauds or legit paranormal investigators?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I saw a presentation they did at Goucher College in the mid-80s. They were so bad they were laughed off the stage. The photos they used were so obviously doctored it wasn't funny. For example, they had a photo of a "spontaneous human combustion" that was a piece of burnt pot roast sitting in a chair.

All through the show they kept saying "We're devout Catholics. We aren't trying to convert you, but if you DON'T ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR RIGHT NOW YOU ARE DOOMED!" And yes, they screamed it at the top of their lungs every time. Every. Single. Time.

They talked about a "possession" they were investigating. There were at least two doctors in the audience. They asked if they had the kid checked out - her symptoms were a textbook example of some disorder. (Sorry, don't remember what they said it was.) When they asked if any doctor had checked the girl out, they screamed the "IYDAJCAYSRNYAD!" litany from above.

When someone questioned them about what was clearly a doctored photo, they scream "IYDAJCAYSRNYAD". When someone asked if they had checked something that could have explained the moving curtain in a room they talked about, they screamed... well, you're getting the idea. They refused to answer any questions at all, but changed the subject. And it was very clear shortly into the presentation they weren't in the least bit prepared to face people who wouldn't take everything they said at face value.

They also claimed they had a tape recording of "Satan himself! Now, we're not trying to scare you, but ..." I think you can fill in what they screamed next. Several times in the presentation, they tried to scare the audience into becoming Catholics, or their souls would be doomed if they listened to Satan. They never did play the recording, despite the hours they claimed to have spent protecting the room with their own prayers. When a minister questioned them about this - that they were the ones responsible for the protection, and not God - they went off the deep end. The audience started yelling the "IYDAJCAYSRNYAD!" litany along with them and laughing.

I knew the lady that was in charge of booking talks for the campus. She was so embarrased. She said if she had any idea how fake they were, she would have billed them as a comedy act.

I can't disprove anything they claim, but they were very amateurish in their investigations and presentations.

[GHIceman]

I believe that I have personally had an encounter with a demon/devil/evil spirit, whatever you want to call it. Why else would a spirit attack someone? Literally throw someone, scratch someone, push someone, etc? There HAS to be a presence of evil, as well as good. You can't honestly tell me that someone who is a murderer or a rapist is simply "following their own truth". I would consider then to be plain, old fashioned evil. Sure, maybe some of them have mental disorders, I'll buy that. But what about the people that do it for fun?

[Axman]

Jamison, on May 12 2005, 02:15 AM, said:

What's your guy's take on Ed & Lorraine Warren?

http://www.warrens.net/

Are they frauds or legit paranormal investigators?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, here is a writing from their website. It is so full of baloney I don't really know what to think.

Ed Warren said:

One of the main reasons for ghosthunting is to have encounters with ghosts. Sometimes however, the hunter can become the hunted. Graveyards are notorious for harboring ghosts. Are they the spirits of the dead that are buried there? Some spirits will remain in close proximity to their earthly remains in the hope they can re-enter that physical body and use it in the same way they did in life. Unfortunately, they cannot do this unless they are what we refer to as the "undead", the "sorcerer", the "Black Magician".

The man who hunts tigers at times has found that the tiger backtracks and is now hunting the hunter. The same is true with spirits. Graveyards are spawning places for evil spirits. Most of these spirits are inhuman (diabolical). They are drawn to areas where human suffering has occurred. These areas are full of vibrations of the tormented people who have lost their loved ones, and the unfortunate human spirits that are earthbound hover close to their remains. Evil spirits revel in the deterioration of human bodies; those bodies which God created. They are the dangers in the exploration of evidence that we, the living, must encounter.

We must be extremely careful of not becoming the hunted. How do we accomplish this? By using the knowledge that the enlightened ghosthunter must know. The enlightened ghosthunter envisions himself in a bright white glowing "Christ light" of protection before he or she ever enters any known haunted area or house. He or she asks for the protection of God and all that is angelic. But remember that these protective measures are only as effective and as powerful as the ghosthunter's belief in them.

New truths, new discoveries, can sometimes only be found through dangerous encounters. We as hunters of ghosts are visible. We are tangible. We are vulnerable. The ghost has the upper hand for it can see what we do not, it can hear what we cannot. It can perform feats we cannot. The ghost can come to us any time it wants. It strikes when the time is most opportune for it to do so (usually the psychic hours of the night between 9:00 P.M. and 6 A.M.).

So, if you want to hunt ghosts you must know your opponent. You must respect its powers. The person who makes statement's such as "I'm not afraid of ghosts", had better think twice about encountering one. Knowledge is a weapon but remember- fools rush in where wise men fear to tread. Don't be a fool. Be a survivor and an intelligent researcher. Help those who are in the spirit world (earth bound spirits). Help the living reach a better understanding of that supernatural world we will all enter some day.

I have been in this work of exploration for more years than I care to remember. I am happy to say I still am. It has been exciting, frightening, and even funny at times but it has never been boring. So I continue to explore, to delve, to research. I am happy in the knowledge that I have found the secret of life. It is that we survive what many believe to be the end, when in reality it is just the beginning.

Ed Warren

[Markway]

Axman, on Aug 11 2005, 05:33 PM, said:

Jamison, on May 12 2005, 02:15 AM, said:

What's your guy's take on Ed & Lorraine Warren?

http://www.warrens.net/

Are they frauds or legit paranormal investigators?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, here is a writing from their website. It is so full of baloney I don't really know what to think.

Ed Warren said:

One of the main reasons for ghosthunting is to have encounters with ghosts. Sometimes however, the hunter can become the hunted. Graveyards are notorious for harboring ghosts. Are they the spirits of the dead that are buried there? Some spirits will remain in close proximity to their earthly remains in the hope they can re-enter that physical body and use it in the same way they did in life. Unfortunately, they cannot do this unless they are what we refer to as the "undead", the "sorcerer", the "Black Magician".

The man who hunts tigers at times has found that the tiger backtracks and is now hunting the hunter. The same is true with spirits. Graveyards are spawning places for evil spirits. Most of these spirits are inhuman (diabolical). They are drawn to areas where human suffering has occurred. These areas are full of vibrations of the tormented people who have lost their loved ones, and the unfortunate human spirits that are earthbound hover close to their remains. Evil spirits revel in the deterioration of human bodies; those bodies which God created. They are the dangers in the exploration of evidence that we, the living, must encounter.

We must be extremely careful of not becoming the hunted. How do we accomplish this? By using the knowledge that the enlightened ghosthunter must know. The enlightened ghosthunter envisions himself in a bright white glowing "Christ light" of protection before he or she ever enters any known haunted area or house. He or she asks for the protection of God and all that is angelic. But remember that these protective measures are only as effective and as powerful as the ghosthunter's belief in them.

New truths, new discoveries, can sometimes only be found through dangerous encounters. We as hunters of ghosts are visible. We are tangible. We are vulnerable. The ghost has the upper hand for it can see what we do not, it can hear what we cannot. It can perform feats we cannot. The ghost can come to us any time it wants. It strikes when the time is most opportune for it to do so (usually the psychic hours of the night between 9:00 P.M. and 6 A.M.).

So, if you want to hunt ghosts you must know your opponent. You must respect its powers. The person who makes statement's such as "I'm not afraid of ghosts", had better think twice about encountering one. Knowledge is a weapon but remember- fools rush in where wise men fear to tread. Don't be a fool. Be a survivor and an intelligent researcher. Help those who are in the spirit world (earth bound spirits). Help the living reach a better understanding of that supernatural world we will all enter some day.

I have been in this work of exploration for more years than I care to remember. I am happy to say I still am. It has been exciting, frightening, and even funny at times but it has never been boring. So I continue to explore, to delve, to research. I am happy in the knowledge that I have found the secret of life. It is that we survive what many believe to be the end, when in reality it is just the beginning.

Ed Warren

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am curious to learn just what portion of Ed Warren's above statement you felt was bologna?

I was one of the leaders of a ghost "busting" group for a number of years, and I frankly agree with most of what Ed Warren have said here.

They have gotten pretty strange over the years and I suspect that they are more involved in making money from some poorly researched books and personal appearances than in doing serious paranormal research. This does not render good advice bad.

Most people who have researched heavily haunted places have had the experience of being followed home. These can be very hard to get rid of.

Why are there so many spirits in graveyards? I'm not sure, but I have theories.

If you do not believe in the supernatural at all, I suppose that any mention of them seems ludicrous.

[Axman]

Okay let me break this down.

Ed Warren said:

One of the main reasons for ghosthunting is to have encounters with ghosts.

No, I believe the main reason is to verify the existance of ghost.

Ed Warren said:

Sometimes however, the hunter can become the hunted. Graveyards are notorious for harboring ghosts. Are they the spirits of the dead that are buried there? Some spirits will remain in close proximity to their earthly remains in the hope they can re-enter that physical body and use it in the same way they did in life. Unfortunately, they cannot do this unless they are what we refer to as the "undead", the "sorcerer", the "Black Magician".

What is the talk about Sorcerers and Black Magicians? Where do they get their evidence? Are the spirits trying to re-enter their body? The idea is a bit stupid. I feel they stay near the body because they are unsure where to go. Maybe that's not the case but I really doubt they are trying re-enter their bodies.

Ed Warren said:

The man who hunts tigers at times has found that the tiger backtracks and is now hunting the hunter. The same is true with spirits. Graveyards are spawning places for evil spirits. Most of these spirits are inhuman (diabolical). They are drawn to areas where human suffering has occurred. These areas are full of vibrations of the tormented people who have lost their loved ones, and the unfortunate human spirits that are earthbound hover close to their remains. Evil spirits revel in the deterioration of human bodies; those bodies which God created. They are the dangers in the exploration of evidence that we, the living, must encounter.

I've already stated my views of demons and evil spirits and don't wish to beat a dead horse. I will however state that it is my belief that these so-called "evil" "inhuman" spirits are really just a ghost with a very nasty attitude. (Now, I know you'll wish to convince me otherwise but don't waste your time.)

Ed Warren said:

We must be extremely careful of not becoming the hunted. How do we accomplish this? By using the knowledge that the enlightened ghosthunter must know. The enlightened ghosthunter envisions himself in a bright white glowing "Christ light" of protection before he or she ever enters any known haunted area or house. He or she asks for the protection of God and all that is angelic. But remember that these protective measures are only as effective and as powerful as the ghosthunter's belief in them.

So, now some ghosts are out there just to go around tormenting and "hunting" us? I don't think so!!! I have encountered many spirits in my investigations and nearly all have seemed to be looking for something, an object, a living person's help, closure, etc. I never feel like I need protection from a spirit. Usually, if they want to be left alone, I just oblige them and move on.

Ed Warren said:

New truths, new discoveries, can sometimes only be found through dangerous encounters.

I learn new things with each encounter. Most of them have been positve. New truths? I don't feel we will ever be near to the truth enough to convince any rock solid skeptic.

Ed Warren said:

We as hunters of ghosts are visible. We are tangible. We are vulnerable. The ghost has the upper hand for it can see what we do not, it can hear what we cannot. It can perform feats we cannot. The ghost can come to us any time it wants. It strikes when the time is most opportune for it to do so (usually the psychic hours of the night between 9:00 P.M. and 6 A.M.).

Now he has the ghost "striking"? Upper hand in what? I feel the main reason that ghosts are more seen at night is for two reasons. The first is that when a person is awaken the mind is open and therefore can't brush it off logcally. The same reason little children have a greater ability to see spirits, they have an open mind. The second reason is they can focus their energy on one specific person in which they wish to appear to or speak to for that matter. To much activity of the living souls in the daytime. I feel that ghosts are mostly timid. I also believe that ghosts can sense persons with parapsychic ability.

Ed Warren said:

So, if you want to hunt ghosts you must know your opponent.

Ghosts are not opponents, they are disembodied spirits.

Ed Warren said:

You must respect its powers. The person who makes statement's such as "I'm not afraid of ghosts", had better think twice about encountering one. Knowledge is a weapon but remember- fools rush in where wise men fear to tread. Don't be a fool. Be a survivor and an intelligent researcher.

I am never "afraid' of a spirit. I am not afraid of spirits of most living people, why shoud I be fearful of a ghost? Rush in, where? On an investigation? Why would I? Every investigation I have done treated every ghost as if they were still living. After all ghost were people too. I have never felt threatened and as I said before, if they wish to be left alone, I oblige. What are we as investigators suppose to survive?

Ed Warren said:

Help those who are in the spirit world (earth bound spirits). Help the living reach a better understanding of that supernatural world we will all enter some day.

I feel that with most rational investigators this is a given.

Ed Warren said:

I have been in this work of exploration for more years than I care to remember. I am happy to say I still am. It has been exciting, frightening, and even funny at times but it has never been boring. So I continue to explore, to delve, to research. I am happy in the knowledge that I have found the secret of life. It is that we survive what many believe to be the end, when in reality it is just the beginning.

This is mostly his own comments so nothing out of ordinary here. However, if the secret of life is life after death, then I think we have all figured that out no matter what religion each of us follow.