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Can we talk intelligently about intelligent design


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#151 evad_83647

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 03:25 PM

Nature is always seeking a balance, when everything is neutral nature is in harmony. There are many factors that can throw nature out of sorts. The sun emits photons which strike the earth. The photons are absorbed into our environment as energy. As the earth rotates and the side which was towards the sun is now facing the coldness of space realeasing the extra energy back into space.

Look at the other visble planets. Mars is too far from the sun to have the energy cycle which earth does. Venus is too close. But both have reached there equlibrium or they wouldn't exsist as planets at all.

Our moon also disturbs the energy force as it rotates around us with its gravitational pull. Causing high tides and pulling at the mantle beneath the crust.
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#152 Markway

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 01:45 AM

One of the major scientific revolutions taking place today is the growing acceptance of the catastrophic nature of the universe. The steady state attitude of the past seemed friendly to the notion of Creation, at least to some "liberal" scientists of the last century.

It is becoming clear however that not everything actually took gajillions of years to take place. Mars resonates here. It's looking more and more like a dead planet to me rather than a lifeless one.

The larger and larger scale is not finding favor these days. All talk these days is of the Multiverse, an endless infinity of universes existing side by side.
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#153 evad_83647

evad_83647

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 03:49 AM

Mark
I don't think you need to be a scientist to understand our universe is not passive. It is really quite obvious to me and I beleive to most other people. What isn't understood is the way everything interacts with everything else. Sure we know the basics but people like you have to dig into the mud and find the real answers.

Neither Mars or Venus is alive like the earth but both have activity. They are not static either. I think you should apply the new formula I came up with, three forms of energy, in 27 primary states. If you need me to I will email you a more in depth version of it.

It predicts nothing will ever be absolutely neutral because 3 times itself can never be an even number. It is really quite interesting to apply it to everything, the human phyche included. You come up with some interesting possibilities.
I just want some credit when you win the pulitzer.

...endless universes side by side, sounds like how we describe atoms to me.

as far as the creationist theory, wouldn't god have created something that would be self sustaining? I wouldn't think he would like to go out and mow the lawn and pull the weeds any more often than he had too.

Edited by evad_83647, 07 February 2006 - 03:45 AM.

Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#154 Markway

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 06:10 PM

Mark
I don't think you need to be a scientist to understand our universe is not passive. It is really quite obvious to me and I beleive to most other people. What isn't understood is the way everything interacts with everything else. Sure we know the basics but people like you have to dig into the mud and find the real answers.

Neither Mars or Venus is alive like the earth but both have activity. They are not static either. I think you should apply the new formula I came up with, three forms of energy, in 27 primary states. If you need me to I will email you a more in depth version of it.

It predicts nothing will ever be absolutely neutral because 3 times itself can never be an even number. It is really quite interesting to apply it to everything, the human phyche included. You come up with some interesting possibilities.
I just want some credit when you win the pulitzer.

...endless universes side by side, sounds like how we describe atoms to me.

as far as the creationist theory, wouldn't god have created something that would be self sustaining? I wouldn't think he would like to go out and mow the lawn and pull the weeds any more often than he had too.

Perhaps I didn't express myself well. Much of the popular awareness of an unstable universe is due to the new attitudes concerning the universe. Prior to the acceptance of meteors, asteroids, etc. science relied totally upon a steady state model for all physical states. This includes the process of evolution. Without rejecting a steady state model natural selection as a mechanism would needs be rejected.

Mars shows signs of having been life bearing in a not so distant past. I am interested in your formula, but missed out on the explanation, is it back in the thread? I've missed a few days.

The endless universe model is currently being developed by quantum physicists. I do not see the resemblance to the atomic model, quite the reverse. The multiverse theory postulates the existence of an infinite number of more or less equal universes. I am unclear if they exist in the same space. Trying to speak in these terms to a physicist only engenders looks of pity. I once asked a physicist how old a man would be, who traveled at the speed of light to a location 500 light years away, when he got there. He told me that time is only subject to accurate measurement when two such objects are in close physical proximity.

As regards to this question about the Multiverse there may be virtually endless universes almost identical to ours, and that it may be possible to experience them. ("Visit" becomes a physicist's term) By the same token, about any combination of space-time imaginable or unimaginable also exists. Want to go back in time? Find a universe like ours with with a slightly slower time passage. Want to visit the stars? Pop into a universe with smaller space and pop back into ours thousands of light years away.
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#155 evad_83647

evad_83647

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 02:15 AM

Ok My generation, which isn't far off from yours, grew up believing in a universe where comets strike planets and meteors hit earth. I sat in awe watching Neil walk on the moon. Some people will tell you that never happened. Since I grew up with these beliefs all of my life they are not new to me.

We used to sit out and watch the meteor showers when I was very young. I think my parents also held the belief the universe was a very dangerous place. The only thing that I have had to revise my basic thinking on was that the moon may have come from earth. It wasn't a theory when I was younger. I see it as plausible, but the timeline would have to be different than what I've heard predicted.

As for meteors and comets they have also been accepted for many many years, when was Haleys comet first named?

When I look at history I see a period when we were very knowledgable about such things, I am refering to the Egyptian times. From what I can decipher we were moving ahead in those days and accepting everything we found pretty much at face value, right up through the Greeks and Romans.

Then something happened, The Church got involved. These theories did not fit into the churches thinking. These ideas were squelched and people were killed to prevent them from spouting off about these hellatious theories. Science just about stopped. In fact much of it was lost and we regressed, we even believed the world was flat and we were the center of the universe. The Egyptian didn't think the world was flat, in fact there is substantial evidence they crossed the atlantic.

We judge the Taliban and Al Queda, look what the Christian church did. They set us back hundreds of years. I am not questioning the Taliban would do the same given the opportunity. Look at what they did to Afghanistan and you will see their plans for the rest of the world. They too are doing it in the name of religion.

Sorry I went a little off course. My point was we have been observing meteors hitting the earth for hundreds of years, the planets were named a long time ago, Pluto became a planet the year after I was born.lol I remember. I think even if it the universe being very active wasn't stated as scientific fact all of us knew this. It took science a while to overcome religious beliefs and stand on its own.

The funny thing about science is the more we learn the more it looks like there may have been a grand design to get the ball rolling. Instead of driving us from religion as the church feared it is showing the possibilty that religion could be right.

Several times scientists have thought they found the smallest particle and now they are finding these particles are made up of yet smaller particles. I think they will find that these quarks, neutrinos, and electrons are are made up of even smaller particles. My thinking stands fast that if there is smaller and smaller stuff, then there must be bigger and bigger stuff. Pretty scientific huh?
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#156 Markway

Markway

    Can dowse the moon everytime that it's full!

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 08:07 PM

Beware the philosophical arguement! It demands balance and elegance. Human elegance is not always the same as scientific elegance.

The whole arguement I made concerning meteors and so on was directed towards the scientific community.They saw meteors impacting upon the moon, but couldn't imagine such a thing happening to earth.

I have to defend the Church.If it weren't for the Catholic Church, written history would begin around 1 A.D. The Greek dramatist's were not exactly writing for the Disney set, but the Church was very faithful in copying and preserving some of the most scurrilous documents. Give credit where credit is due. Read the documents surrounding Galileo's trial. The church about stood on it's head rather that convict the antagonistic jerk.

On task, I merely want to point out that the idea of catastrophism is relatively new, scientifically speaking.



On a different note I want to share a thought. Each of us is precious in God's sight and in the eyes of historians. We spend our lives acquiring knowledge that is lost in the seconds of death. how many of us would not want to speak, if even for a few minutes with our great-grandfather-mother?
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.




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