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#1 Markway

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

I haven't posted in awhile. I was just getting over the grind of "Skeptics vs Believers", a thread that went on for years, when my best friend/wife passed away. It was a reminder to me that we might be looking at Ghost Village from the other side sooner than we might like or expect so get old business done.

Old business for me is one of the topics that I have followed through various media for many years now beginning in the late 60's. You've all heard of the Bermuda Triangle (so called) and many have also heard ot "The Devil's Sea", (an area SE of Japan), and maybe a few of you have read or heard of the unnamed area between the Tasman Sea and New Zeland. What you may not be so familiar with are disappearances that take place on land and are just as odd and final.

I have always found the details fascinating when they are available. Quasar, who runs his own website on the Bermuda area reports that a fair number of planes are seen going down in shallow water, like 5-10 feet in depth, with no wreckage eer found, and of small planes found on the ocean bottom under 6 feet of water with the doors locked, the keys missing from the ignition and no sign of people.

Some of the land disappearances can be related to serial killers working in specific locations, but others are much more difficult to find any information on at all. I should really have said "no easy explanation", because sometimes people disappear and then reappear just as mysteriously.

What I find especially odd are that certain age groups seem to be especially at risk. The old and very young are often found to go missing, often while berry picking (?) and within feet and seconds of family. Bloodhounds etc turn up nothing and then, sometimes the searchers are blessed, the 2 year old is found wandering in the woods on the other side of an 1,800 ft mountain, minus clothing never found, in perfect condition and with no story either.

I come from a family with a long tradition of hunting and hunting guides etc ( my grandfather was once the primary grizzly bear hunting guide in Alaska for example). It is easy to get lost in the woods and in areas like Alaska and the PNW the weather will kill you darn quick if you don't know what you're doing. The weird thing is that usually the lost go downhill (unconsciously, because it's easier), and tend to circle. The Pacific Coast is especially horrible because it is usually wet, the forest dense, so sight lines hard to maintain, and the presence of round hills as are found in southern Oregon make it very difficult to maintain a compass heading, But when people disappear within earshot of companions, when the bloodhounds can find nothing (they work best in a moist location without a lot of dry or rain. This accounts for the high success of tracking convicts in the American Old South).

People ARE going to get lost in the woods, but it's usually people on their own, not with a group, and they have a story when found (when and if). Someone found days later in great physical condition is what you expect from Bear Gryles, not a 3 year old or a 75 year old woman. In some of the cases it has even appeared that the lost person is avoiding being found and living in a feral state off of the land. Remember we are talking about 9, 15, 75 year old people. In one case the lost person was 95 years old and recovering from a stroke. Thousands of searchers and no trace, nothing. One road in, no cars, trackers come up with nothing. When SAR personnel like Sheriffs etc begin talking about alien abduction you know something is very off base. Personally, I am not a big believer in aliens in general far less a generalized program of abduction etc, but when someone resorts to that sort of explanation the situaition is just too odd.

One last comment. When people are found, dead or alive, they are most often found right where the search began or on the main trail in or out of the search area, a place passed over maybe thousands of times by the searchers.

If I were to pull an answer out of my pocket I would have to guess that we are dealing with alternate realities or states of being, or the inhabitants thereof. When Charles Fort began writing about the paranormal he began with falls of fish and stones and about anything else you care to think of. My reasoning is that if items can get HERE why can't thing go THERE wherever THERE is.

I know from interviews that people can pass into what is often called "The Oz State, or condition". Certain areas often around water, or places known to be "odd" can have strange effects upon people. One interview I conducted was with a middle aged man who was visiting the Sleepy Hollow region of NY State. (Yes, it really exists). He was visiting an ancient cemetary during high summer. He "disappeared" from his wife and another couple for almost 5 hours. He remembers going into a sort of dell and hearing the buzz of insects and the golden light and being enchanted by the wonder of it. He walked out and found his wife and friends who were just frantic. He thought that MAYBE he had spent 20 minutes in that dell, but according to his wife he was missing for 5 hours. This is when you begin to question reality as an objective medium.

Anyone out there with any experience to share?
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#2 Cryscat

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

Here is more food for thought:

History is peppered with intriguing tales of people who, for all intents and purposes, inexplicably vanish from the face of the earth without a trace. These stories - some of the most fascinating in the annals of the unexplained - vary from being well-documented to having the flavor of mere legend and folklore. But they are all fascinating because they force us to question the solidity of our existence.
Where did these vanished people go? A time portal? Another dimension? Into a UFO? Consider those chilling possibilities as you read these amazing reports: http://paranormal.ab...appearances.htm
and: http://paranormal.about.com/cs/humanenigmas/a/aa060903.htm
Don't take life too seriously, no one ever gets out alive.

#3 Markway

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:01 PM

I really shouldn't relate this incident because I have only my tape recordings and notes to back it up, but I had one man who "disappeared" in one of these old cemetaries (sorry, I promised some anonymnity, and the name of the cemetary is central here). The man was involved as was the man mentioned in the original post, looking for rubbings. He entered and left a certain area in such a way as to preclude fraud. (Essentially, he entered an area surrounded by 20' high reefs of Himalayan Blackberry bushes), and disappeared. Again, the man was mesmerized by the buzzing of the insects, the warmth of the day, the heavy scents and so forth. While he was mazed by the local wonders of nature. His wife and her friend followed him and couldn't see him whatsoever. He emerged about an hour later from the same area.

It sounds a bit hypnotic but there is no denying that the person who seemed hypnotized was the one who disappeared rather than those who couldn't find him. This account is also very similar to those describing those who disappear after encountering or seeing "Fairies", and yes, UFO's as well.

I was really hoping to hear from someone who had "gone missing" and come back, or people who had been involved in this sort of search.
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#4 Markway

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 07:55 PM

My post reignited my own interst and I bought a couple of books. Not cheap by the way, by David Pallides entitled "Missing 411". There are two volumes, one for the East Coast and one for the West Coast.

It was hard not to read these books and not recognize that this ex-law enforcement officer who had been involved in a lot of SAR has a theory which he is very reluctant to share. His conclusions lead to "Big Foot, or Sasquatch" as being a prime candidate for many of these abductions. In some case on the East Coast both the FBI and Green Beret (!) units were called in (complete with armament) to help find the person.

I have spent nearly 60 years in the PNW and can recognize a Sasquatch incident when I read one. The upshot seems to be that they are curious about very young kids and often just relaease them after awhile but that they look at the older members of our species as food. One of the unifyinf elements of Pallides' books seems to be an association with berry picking. In recent years a common methid of looking for "Squatches" has been to follow the ripe berry harvests. Also, most all of the victims in his book have been divested of shoes and often clothing, or found in islands in the middle of rivers, swamps etc.

An intelligent woods primate, nearly human, might notice that humans need shoes to move fast and far. They might also see the young as cute as we do young cougars etc but the mature versions as dangerous prey. Just as one example a victim was found with much of his clothing removed upriver from his knapsack which was found on an island in the middle of the said river with it's contents spread out as if for inventory.

Frankly, after reading this book, I would think more than twice before taking my young children (under 15) into certain areas and wouldn't take a young child to pick berries unless he/she was on a leash. There is a lot more to this, the ability to "Call" for example. This is the claimed ability of some to be able to make a wild animal to approach the hunter against it's will. In some cases children seem to have been called out of their homes. Also, there is the difficulty in photographing "Wild Men of The Woods", the inability or reluctance of dogs to track them. (Family and friends in hunting and Official positions in the PNW).
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#5 TheresaRHPS

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:00 AM

I'm sure you've researched Ivan Sanderson's Vile Vortices in your interest in this topic, and its definitely a fascinating one, although it doesn't seem to mesh with the majority of these cases and especially not the Sasquatch connection. For those not familiar, the Vile Vortices or 12 Devil's Graveyards are different geographical areas known for unexplained disappearances. Most are in the ocean, but there are a few on land. I'm surprised that the alleged Bennington Triangle isn't included, but eh...this was laid out in the early 70s so maybe there wasn't enough data for that one yet. ( http://www.paranorma.../vile-vortices/ )

Lord only knows what is happening in these areas, and what is happening to these people who disappear only to return mysteriously or worse...never show up again. I can't say that I know of anyone personally who has experienced this, nor have I experienced it myself...and I'm okay with that, lol.
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#6 Markway

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 02:09 AM

Yes, I sort of broke my teeth teething uon the works of Mr. Sanderson. The Bennington Triange needs some onsite research. The area is supposed to be a Native Ameican/First Nations area that was off limits. Ths has always been rumored or assumed, but never , to my knowledge, Checked with Tribal Elders.

Part of the waning interest is that the disappearances ended some decades ago. I suspect that the reason is that some road, development etc was built that obstructed an animal migration corridor.

I admit that discovering that a lot of disappearances were the result of a "Manimal" abduction is not quite as sexy as slipping into the 5th dimension, but proof of "Bigfoot/Sasquatch/Wildmen of the Woods, would provide you with enough fame to put you in history!
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#7 allege

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:08 PM

Markway, very interesting that you mentioned the man seemed to be transfixed by the buzz of insects. When I was very small my family was visiting a place of extreme spiritual and cultural significance. I was 3. Every time I got close to the fence that surrounded the area a buzz would start, and it would get louder the closer I got. This only happened with me, and my parents sent me back to the car with my older sister.

Lately I have been very interested in people disappearing. A friend was telling me a story not long ago about a couple who disappeared in the middle of the night in the 70's, leaving behind their small children. This was the shelton family from Corbin, ky.
Never to suffer would never to have been blessed. -Edgar Allan Poe

#8 Markway

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:09 AM

A bit dismayed that they removed my photo. I changed it on my info page but nothing seems to have changed here. Lee was one of my few heroes and not for some racist reason. He is actually a member of my family among other reasons, like I sort of look like him now. Well, rest assured I do not appear by choice as a pixie with no irises.

I too am very interested by the "slip into the alternate dimension" sort of thing, and there is a lot of hearsay evidence for it but hard evidence is always scarce. The closest that I have come to it is in the form of lost or gained time. I interviewed a lady about 3 years ago who was driving down a road not far from the dreaded "Maltby Cemetery". It's a much smaller cemetery and the woman claimed to have seen a wagon with a group of people conducting a burial and the next thing she remembers is "coming to" some 10 miles farther north while driving.

Jenny Randles, a rather eccentric author claims that there are "Time Storms", and a part of them is an "Oz Effect" in which people feel cut off from normal reality.

The buzzing effect I do not believe to be insects at all. What they are I am hesitant to guess. I do know that electricity can be audible in many forms. I found it very significant when I was writing my book (never finished), that most people who hear the buzz at Holy Wells etc. experience time dilation. What seems like minutes to them is in fact hours to those outside of the effect. I also found it odd that in many cases people cannot see the people so affected.

The Sasquatch business was too creepy not to pass along. The disappearances inside of Yosemite alone are terrifying. Also the response. More and more frequently special forces are being called into these searches.
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#9 jimmary

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:22 AM

I have to tag this for myself; this is interesting stuff.

#10 Markway

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:40 PM

There's a lot that goes on. Much of it perpetuated by Brad Steiger who tends to repeat the same info over and over in different covers. However one that I have heard often is the appearance of an elderly woman in 19th century clothing appearing out of nowhere in the middle of a 20th century street. For some unexplained but common response a number of people chased her. They followed her to a cul de sac and she reportedly disappeared in mid air. Another story repeated by Steiger, but published by a different researcher had a man run across a group of truly anonymous people in a New York tobacconist's shop. He said that they were dressed as if they had gone to a prop room and picked things out. Their clothing was all appropriate for various periods in the 20th Century, But of course that changes rather quickly. Their luggage was present and of an old variety, but brand new! They tried to (turned italics on and now it won't go off) to purchase candy cigarettes and some other odd dialogue. They finally picked up their luggage and walked out of the store. The narrator was so intrigued that he followed them out of the store and watched them walk into nothing. He went back into the store and the counterperson had almost forgotten that they had been there (some minutes ago) There are a lot more stories but they are hard to verify.
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#11 allege

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:04 PM

Steiger wrote about that story in his book Real Ghost Stories, if I remember correctly he thought they were beings masquerading as humans.
Never to suffer would never to have been blessed. -Edgar Allan Poe

#12 Cryscat

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:16 PM

Fog is also involved in some of this

Killer Fog - Deadly vapor -- both natural and paranormal

http://paranormal.ab.../a/aa101705.htm
Don't take life too seriously, no one ever gets out alive.

#13 Markway

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:45 AM

Knowing Steiger it's in about 20 of his books, but the reason I am more inclined to believe it than some others is that a different paranormalist was the principle involved in the incident. Steiger's opinion is no better than mine, and if he thinks that those were ghosts, my opinion is better. Why, hubris? No, ghosts wear something that they did in life. These characters did not act like ghosts or behave like ghosts. I suspect that there is a fair amount of traffic between parallel time lines. It's the only good explanation to date for the appearances of strange objects as well. One example, and this I could document at one time. I came from a farm journal and local paper down in farm country/Mid-West. There were falls of huge corn husks. From the size of the husks the cobs would have had to have been over two feet long. The fact that they were found in a sweep across three states and were all in areas that are prime corn growing areas made the report more believable to me. Consider, if we are getting material from another reality, it proves that movement is possible and if corn husks, why not people? It a logical jump I know, but a reasonable one I think. Of course, when someone disappears from a road crew while walking with co workers, and when searchers find evidence it's the man's shoes and everything that would fall out of a man's pants if he were turned upside down, I don't think parallel universe, I think predator who doesn't want it running off..

Fog is also involved in some of this

Killer Fog - Deadly vapor -- both natural and paranormal

http://paranormal.ab.../a/aa101705.htm

Are you talking about that green fog assumed to be associated with time phenomenae?
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

#14 TheresaRHPS

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:05 PM

Heads up! Here's the description for Coast to Coast AM's Monday (July 22) show that might interest anyone interested in this thread:

Editor of Unicus Magazine and expert in UFOs, Robert Stanley, will discuss the epidemic of missing people how have disappeared without a trace from Earth from various hot zones including the Bermuda Triangle, the Devil's Sea in the Pacific Ocean, plus ten other "vile vortices" found around the world.
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#15 Markway

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:21 AM

Like most in this area I have my own prejudices and inclinations. My biggest one is a big negative one concerning UFO's. I believe, in fact know that they exist. What are they? There's the rub. When I was a teenager, lo these many years ago, I believed that UFO's were nuts and bolts machines bringing aliens from other planets. If I hadn't had my computer crash while I was doing my book and lost most of my research, I could give you rote and verse of some interesting tales. Some are in the public domain. The stories I remember, the references I do not. At one point in the 20th century there was some real evidence of what may have actually been an alien probe in orbit around the sun. But this is not really what most UFO enthusiasts are interested in. Where I part company with the UFO folks is in ascribing just about anything weird to UFO's and aliens. Jenni Randles and I are not bosom pals but I absolutely sympathise with her when she talks about evidence of time slips, some natural some not and almost immediately has to deal with some UFO researcher that ignores everything in their interview of the particular incident except the time loss. So, if this character gets on Coast to Coast and lays off all of the disappearances to UFO's I'd just turn it off. Any explanation that explains disappearances has to also include odd appearances as well. as an Anthropologist I have always been fascinated by out of place artifacts, and boy there are a ton. Okay, predators both two and four legged, hairy and clothed are undoubtedly responsible for many disappearances. The FBI looks for serial killers and bigfoot hunters track berry harvests for bigfoot sightings. So, when there is evidence that money is missing I don't look for Bigfoot, or little green men. On the other hand when people go missing out of a group while hunting for berries in the wilderness and are found alive or otherwise stark naked on top of a mountain or in the middle of a swamp with no scratches, I think Bigfoot. When a scientist digs under cap rock known to be about a million years old and finds human remains and artifacts I think time/timeline slip. A final note on UFO's; Jacques Valee went down the same route as myself. Keel had some interesting experiences and I would REALLY like to know just how truthful he was. The more he investigated UFO's the odder the experiences were that came his way, and not in Robbie the Robot sort of otherworldly way either.
Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
This much let me avow---
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream:
Yet if hope has flown away In a night,
Or in a day, In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.




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