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#1 SeekX

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

I am very serious about these questions and I thank everyone who sincerely answers them.
First please allow me to say as with many if not most people I have my own beliefs but I am setting them aside because I want to hear any an all perspectives without bias or preconceived notions.




In many ghost stories there are suicides is that a punishment for the act of suicide to be forced to stay I guess maybe I can say between realms?

And as to good and evil is there a hell or a place like that or is that the punishment for being bad or evil to stay between realms ?
Is there any punishment of any kind at all involved , I mean it hardly seems fair that someone real bad like Hitler gets a joy ride into the next world or reincarnated into a good life on this planet or any planet in any universe or dimension does it now?
Are there demons and evil spirits? Human? Alien ? What are the penalties for wrong doing if any .
What rewards if any for being a good decent moral person ?
No difference ? difference?
How does it all work.

#2 SeekX

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

I see , no answers so far

#3 CaveRat2

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:47 AM

Regarding your questions,

1 and 2 - Both questions are related, I believe there is a punishment / reward based on your decisions in your life time. No one escapes or stays around after death. I don't subscribe to the traditional ghost theory, however there may be other explanations, some of which don't even require a death to account for "ghosts"..

3 - Yes there is a punishment for those who are "real bad". There is also forgiveness for those who GENUINELY ask. (Not just a "I'm sorry" on your death bed!) Even a Hitler could if he so asked and MEANT IT. (But what is the likelyhood of THAT?) BTW, this is why I don't believe in reincarnation. Where is the reward for someone who lived a genuinely good life, followed all God's instructions, died and had to do it all over again?

4 - Yes ther e are demons, they aren't and never were human. As to aliens, who can say? I believe there are, they are creations of God and have the same responsibilities / duties in their lives as we do. They are not gods / demons, only another form of life. They could be more advanced than we are or for that matter more primitive. Their stage of development is irrelavent to where they stand regarding any afterlife.

5 - Rewards for being a decent person may be given here or also in an afterlife. I believe in heaven and hell, but where you wind up is not only determined by morality. But additional rewards may be given to those who have gone out of there way to do good. As a Christian I believe that salvation is a result of accepting Christ as savior. I also believe additional rewards are possible for other good done. On the other side I believe those condemned to hell will burn, but hell may also burn just a little hotter for the likes of a bin Laden or Hitler. Just my opinion there, I leave that decision to God.

#4 SeekX

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:02 PM

Thank you CaveRat that was interesting , I also am a Christian though I believe a bit different But it is your take I am interested in . again thanks . :)

I will go over your information again tomorrow been a long day , it was intriguing . :)

#5 SeekX

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:33 AM

Regarding your questions,

1 and 2 - Both questions are related, I believe there is a punishment / reward based on your decisions in your life time. No one escapes or stays around after death. I don't subscribe to the traditional ghost theory, however there may be other explanations, some of which don't even require a death to account for "ghosts"..



Heaven , Hell and maybe Paradise?
Are you saying there are no ghost?
I know for any unknown a reason given enough time can always be found and not necessarily concluding that the reason is the correct one but that it could be and most occurrences and events have multiple possible explanations by rational thought.
But for some reason I think you are implying there are no ghost at all or few if any.
Is that what you are saying?

Edited by SeekX, 11 November 2012 - 08:34 AM.


#6 SeekX

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 08:50 AM

3 - Yes there is a punishment for those who are "real bad". There is also forgiveness for those who GENUINELY ask. (Not just a "I'm sorry" on your death bed!) Even a Hitler could if he so asked and MEANT IT. (But what is the likelyhood of THAT?) BTW, this is why I don't believe in reincarnation. Where is the reward for someone who lived a genuinely good life, followed all God's instructions, died and had to do it all over again?


I know in accordance with some beliefs there is certain punishment within reincarnation but you have a good point about the reward though of course not everyone believes in the same God that we do so that is going on the assumption we are right.

Also might it not explain those who were never given a chance to hear about him.

#7 SeekX

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:08 AM

4 - Yes ther e are demons, they aren't and never were human. As to aliens, who can say? I believe there are, they are creations of God and have the same responsibilities / duties in their lives as we do. They are not gods / demons, only another form of life. They could be more advanced than we are or for that matter more primitive. Their stage of development is irrelavent to where they stand regarding any afterlife.




Yes , I also believe there are demons .
Real good point about aliens being at various stages of development , most people tend to think them all advanced.
But of course where do they stand on salivation , it was humans and I guess we can say Lucifer and some angels that sinned not aliens.
I mean of course in accordance with our beliefs.
Then again maybe not , Christendom is filled with different beliefs .

#8 SeekX

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:32 AM

5 - Rewards for being a decent person may be given here or also in an afterlife. I believe in heaven and hell, but where you wind up is not only determined by morality. But additional rewards may be given to those who have gone out of there way to do good. As a Christian I believe that salvation is a result of accepting Christ as savior. I also believe additional rewards are possible for other good done. On the other side I believe those condemned to hell will burn, but hell may also burn just a little hotter for the likes of a bin Laden or Hitler. Just my opinion there, I leave that decision to God.


I am slightly baffled here.
You are a Christian and you say “ As a Christian I believe that salvation is a result of accepting Christ as savior. “ and you said preceding that “ where you wind up is not only determined by morality. But additional rewards may be given to those who have gone out of there way to do good. “
You seem to be saying people can only be saved through Jesus and you also seem to be saying being a good person will get you to heaven?

As for burning a little hotter for Hitler and Osama well there are beliefs that there are various levels and depths of hell so who knows could be.

#9 SeekX

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 09:55 AM

Again CaveRat thank you for your very informative reply.
BTW , You have a nice website. :)


#10 CaveRat2

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:13 AM

I will try to address each of the above posts here.

Ghosts - I am not saying there are no "ghosts" per se. I don't believe in the traditional ghost theory, i.e. souls left behind for some reason. However consider 5 alternative expalantions that may or may not apply (Nothing has ever been PROVEN, after all!)

1. Residual energy - That could be left behind by the living. If this eenergy manifested itself after death we have the "ghost" of whoever left it. If it manifests itself next day and the person who left it is still nearby we brush it off as simply a transitional thought about the person.
2. Visiting spirits / souls - These are actually referred to in the Bible. Christians who say otherwise need to read Mathew 17 ver 1-10. That is the Transfiguration of Christ where Moses and Elijah were visibly seen by the apostles present with Christ. Fits our definition of a ghost very well! Of course that was done by God for a particular purpose, but who are we to say God can't allow a soul to visit someone in that manner today? Maybe just to bring closure. It probably wouldn't be in the presence of a paranormal investigator, but can any of us limit God's power? In any event though if God allowed it, I am certain a means would be provided for the spirits return without needing our help or cleansing!
3. Alien or Interdimensional beings - These maight appear or seem as ghosts to us. They might easily pass through solid objects since they exist in other dimensions. Maybe our "ghosts" are only the effects of these visitors. No one need die for this possibility to be considered.
4. Demons or Angels - We have to keep open this as an explanation as well. I doubt they are common, but certainly based on recorded history not impossible explanations.
5. Mass hysteria - Some external influence may be affecting how we perceive reality. If some form of energy is responsble for this we need to consider what it may be and who might be behind it..
6. Misidentification of the commonplace - Some people may be preconditioned to see "ghosos" and be doing so simply because of this conditioning. Society may be responsible for this, thus the reason why some may be witnesses and others present see nothing at the same time.

Just a few alternative explanations that DON'T require any disparity between religion and ghosts. Whether any are actually the case is still open, it could be ghosts are in reality something we haven't even considered yet!

#11 CaveRat2

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:20 AM

Regarding which god is the correct one, each religion is based on faith. It is the one area where proof is not required (according to most religions!) Obviously each believes it is correct. Christianity and some others teach those who do not follow it are doomed for some form of punishment. I have only what is taught and my faith to go by in that regard. God has final say, it is not my position to judge or force my beliefs on anyone. I believe live my life, respect others who may believe different (as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me!) and let God sort it all out in the end. If God wants to allow everyone without regard of what religion they follow into heaven, great! If not, His call, not mine..

#12 CaveRat2

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

As a Christin I believe Christ when He said, "No one comes to the Father except through Me." That in my faith means accepting Christ as savior. That is all that is required to get to Heaven. By that I mean none of us on our own can make it, Christ intervenes for those who follow Him and provides the payment for our failings. An allegory might be the "Get out of jail free" card. There is a penalty to be paid by all, God demands perfection so we all get jail (hell) in some degree. But if you accept the card, the bill is paid.

Regarding the rewards I mentioned, once the card is used heaven is the reward. (Here it becomes just my thoughts!) According to scripture Christ says, "In my Father's house (heaven) there are many mansions (rooms). I go to prepare a place for you." (my followers) So we all get house. But some are on Main Streeet, some on 22nd street, not quite in the center of town. Those who earn extra reward may get a prime location, the rest just around the corner. I may be off with this, it's just the way I look at it.

#13 SeekX

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:20 PM

I will try to address each of the above posts here.

Ghosts - I am not saying there are no "ghosts" per se. I don't believe in the traditional ghost theory, i.e. souls left behind for some reason. However consider 5 alternative expalantions that may or may not apply (Nothing has ever been PROVEN, after all!)

1. Residual energy - That could be left behind by the living. If this eenergy manifested itself after death we have the "ghost" of whoever left it. If it manifests itself next day and the person who left it is still nearby we brush it off as simply a transitional thought about the person.
2. Visiting spirits / souls - These are actually referred to in the Bible. Christians who say otherwise need to read Mathew 17 ver 1-10. That is the Transfiguration of Christ where Moses and Elijah were visibly seen by the apostles present with Christ. Fits our definition of a ghost very well! Of course that was done by God for a particular purpose, but who are we to say God can't allow a soul to visit someone in that manner today? Maybe just to bring closure. It probably wouldn't be in the presence of a paranormal investigator, but can any of us limit God's power? In any event though if God allowed it, I am certain a means would be provided for the spirits return without needing our help or cleansing!
3. Alien or Interdimensional beings - These maight appear or seem as ghosts to us. They might easily pass through solid objects since they exist in other dimensions. Maybe our "ghosts" are only the effects of these visitors. No one need die for this possibility to be considered.
4. Demons or Angels - We have to keep open this as an explanation as well. I doubt they are common, but certainly based on recorded history not impossible explanations.
5. Mass hysteria - Some external influence may be affecting how we perceive reality. If some form of energy is responsble for this we need to consider what it may be and who might be behind it..
6. Misidentification of the commonplace - Some people may be preconditioned to see "ghosos" and be doing so simply because of this conditioning. Society may be responsible for this, thus the reason why some may be witnesses and others present see nothing at the same time.

Just a few alternative explanations that DON'T require any disparity between religion and ghosts. Whether any are actually the case is still open, it could be ghosts are in reality something we haven't even considered yet!


Good points. :)

Regarding which god is the correct one, each religion is based on faith. It is the one area where proof is not required (according to most religions!) Obviously each believes it is correct. Christianity and some others teach those who do not follow it are doomed for some form of punishment. I have only what is taught and my faith to go by in that regard. God has final say, it is not my position to judge or force my beliefs on anyone. I believe live my life, respect others who may believe different (as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me!) and let God sort it all out in the end. If God wants to allow everyone without regard of what religion they follow into heaven, great! If not, His call, not mine..


Even a better point. :)

#14 SeekX

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

As a Christin I believe Christ when He said, "No one comes to the Father except through Me." That in my faith means accepting Christ as savior. That is all that is required to get to Heaven. By that I mean none of us on our own can make it, Christ intervenes for those who follow Him and provides the payment for our failings. An allegory might be the "Get out of jail free" card. There is a penalty to be paid by all, God demands perfection so we all get jail (hell) in some degree. But if you accept the card, the bill is paid.

Regarding the rewards I mentioned, once the card is used heaven is the reward. (Here it becomes just my thoughts!) According to scripture Christ says, "In my Father's house (heaven) there are many mansions (rooms). I go to prepare a place for you." (my followers) So we all get house. But some are on Main Streeet, some on 22nd street, not quite in the center of town. Those who earn extra reward may get a prime location, the rest just around the corner. I may be off with this, it's just the way I look at it.



The best point yet in the first paragraph. +++ :)
As to your thoughts ; interesting. :)

#15 Frater Arion

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

I preface this with my usual statement. These answers are a result of my study, theorizing, and experience over the past 6 or so years I've been an occultist. They are nothing other than my opinion, and you are more than welcome to disagree.

- Fr. A.

I am very serious about these questions and I thank everyone who sincerely answers them.
First please allow me to say as with many if not most people I have my own beliefs but I am setting them aside because I want to hear any an all perspectives without bias or preconceived notions.




In many ghost stories there are suicides is that a punishment for the act of suicide to be forced to stay I guess maybe I can say between realms?

I don't believe suicide would be punished, I have a rather complex view of the afterlife, and while I don't think you would necessarily be 'punished' for suicide, you would not be where you could/should be in comparison to if you had lived a full life.

And as to good and evil is there a hell or a place like that or is that the punishment for being bad or evil to stay between realms ?

Good and evil are terms I tend to stay away from. The concept of morality is a touchy subject, and I honestly believe it to be a human construct (though, I do agree that we definitely need it). From my experience, spirits tend to either not have such a black and white (good/evil) view of morality, or they have something completely separate to replace morality. They have duties, interests, and responsibilities that outweigh any such concepts.

Is there any punishment of any kind at all involved , I mean it hardly seems fair that someone real bad like Hitler gets a joy ride into the next world or reincarnated into a good life on this planet or any planet in any universe or dimension does it now?

I do not believe in a heaven/hell view of the afterlife, and as such I don't believe there is a distinct plane of torment for "evil" people. However, I do think that reincarnation is possible (not a definite thing everyone experiences, but possible.) and perhaps those who have committed horrible acts are reincarnated to make up for it. Other than that, I have really no say on this matter. It's a concept I haven't given much thought or study to.

Are there demons and evil spirits? Human? Alien ? What are the penalties for wrong doing if any .

"Evil" spirits, no. As I said above, I dislike the terms good/evil. Demons exist but not in the way most people view them. They are not evil, and the word demon has strayed far from it's original meaning, therefore I prefer to use the term "infernal spirits" when speaking of demons, infernal being a derivative of the Latin infernus "lower, lying beneath," from infra "below". They are creatures of the lower planes. They have their own agendas, unlike "angels" who have a purposeful existence and a duty to a certain sphere of influence. They may be seen as "evil" because they can be opportunistic, and have no (for lack of a better word) 'allegiance' to humanity

What rewards if any for being a good decent moral person ?

Aside from living a great physical life? I'm not entirely sure, again reincarnation is a possibility, and good karma can only help. As I stated above, I have a complex view of the afterlife, and to answer this question I would have to thoroughly examine every aspect of my belief. And that would be quite a long post. I've never really contemplated the good/bad reward/punishment system. I've been raised to be a good person, regardless of what may come of it.

No difference ? difference?

Answered above.

How does it all work.


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