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Demons:Another side to the story


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#1 Tokkien

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 06:13 PM

I hear alot of bad things about demons and its probably all very true. But there has to be reason for wanting to torment human beings. I believe that there are two sides of the story. First of all, no one would just all of the sudden say "I hate God, lets make a war against heaven." God had to have done something to the fallen angels in order to really piss them off. Perhaps it might even be political in a sense. God and Satan must have had different views on a particular issue. Who knows? Then there is the question, Why are demons so mean? Perhaps they are just playing dirty. Hurt the child to anger the father kind of tactic. Maybe since we all worship god they want to hurt us. But then again God made us to think in certain ways. And Demons most likely think in different ways than us. What maybe just a harmless prank to them could be murder to us. And also one of the greatest questions that troubles my mind is why the bible starts at the creation. Why dosen't it tell of what happened with the fallen angels? Perhaps God is trying to hide something from us.

#2 MoonChild

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 10:16 PM

this is a nice thought. but since I dont see "God" as a person, this doesnt hold true. More than anything what I feel is that, when the "BASE" was created there were polarization of energies and this is why we have "good" and "bad". it is like churning the curd and the cream gets separated. :) just my thoughts

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#3 aloha_spirit

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 10:33 AM

You're right - the Bible mentions little of what happened before the creation.  The book of Revelation talks of a huge war, resulting in the third part of the hosts of heaven being cast out.  What caused that war?  The Bible doesn't say.

Here is how I imagine it:

At the Grand Council, God presented a plan for us to progress.  We were to be sent to a world where we receive physical bodies and learn to control them.  We would have our agency to either obey or disobey.  A Saviour was provided to cover our mistakes when we fall.  Since this was the Father's plan, he should get the glory.

Lucifer presented a different plan.  A world would be created, but he would force everyone to choose the right.  Not a single sould would ever be blemmished with sin!  Since Lucifer thought of this plan, the glory should be his.

A debate ensued and the majority chose the Father's plan.  Lucifer and his followers were given the chance to also accept it.  Instead, it somehow escalated to a war.

The hosts serving under Michael cast out Lucifer and his followers.  Because of the rebellion, these fallen angels will never gain a physical body.  They will never be able to enjoy the presence of their Father again.

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#4 UnkleBunny

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 02:24 PM

again, fromw hat I've researched, it could be that.. however... it also stems from that on a a smaller scale... Lucifer was God's Right hand man. he was the most favored of the angels... and when that favor went to Christ, it hurt Lucifer, because angels HAVE to feel that love from God, due to no free will. this made Lucifer jealous, and unhappy, and this did escaleate into a war, and God did cast lucifer out of heaven, but you kno what? it really doesn't say Lucifer went to Hell, and became the devil, did it? now, if you want to get truly technical.... if God is the ALL TIMME of the good side, then why would a former servant be the counterpart? what if Satan, BeelzeBub, Ameil, or whatever his name is, is something else? a being on par with God? heck, let's go even further, and say that lucifer, is right here, on earth...with his Fallen... now I don't nessisarily think they are evil, but I'd bet to anything, they're pretty ticked off...however, are fallen Ones Demons? or do Demons serve the End All of evil? now, also if you look at the nature of evil... evil is merely the other side of good... cruelty, torture, and all that are man amde creations, as to be proven, (using Christian thinking) the ultimate torture, and punishment, is the lack of God's love...so why would a demon torment, or feed off people?

now, let's get metaphysical... people, as the Matrix taught us, are energy banks. both electrical, and spiritual energies...some Spiritual beings, much like predators, in our world, need to feed off the living energies of others... now, some also feed off emotions, and they can be pretty specific...fear, love, sexual energy, etc... so some may have to produce that particualr energy they require..... this, is not beneficial to us, as a living creatures, so, we automatically denote this as "evil, bad activity", and these creatures engaging in this feeding pattern, are Demons, and sent directly from Satan, from a deep part of Hell....as we are taught, by the Church...each faith has a different way of dealing with, and describing these creatures...

#5 Tokkien

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 05:53 AM

Hey its also possible that human beings could just be some sort of bet between god and lucifer. Who can get the most souls kind of thing.

#6 MoonChild

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 07:23 AM

Hey its also possible that human beings could just be some sort of bet between god and lucifer. Who can get the most souls kind of thing.


[smiley=cwm19.gif] [smiley=cwm24.gif] well, who knows what?!

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#7 UnkleBunny

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 08:50 AM

it's possible... a little comsic chess game, so to speak?

#8 Tokkien

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 11:08 AM

Thats kind of depressing to think that your whole purpose of existance is to be a pawn in a giant chessgame. Not to worry, alcohol should fix the depression.

#9 aloha_spirit

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 03:19 PM

If you can't find alcohol (can't be bought in my village, for example), try a little kawa.

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#10 MoonChild

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 03:56 AM

well, why not try a bit of head banging!

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#11 UnkleBunny

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:37 AM

Head banging works for this little metal head.

#12 Wind of Light

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Posted 25 January 2004 - 08:34 AM

:-/ ?¿¿¿?
-Du Súndavar Freohr-===================================--------------------------------------------Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here and drink what comes out"?

#13 mellilotflower

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 07:45 AM

Did God not want us to be perfect beings, and lucifer then offered us sin? or am I getting confused?  In the garden of eden, Adam and Eve knew no pain, no shame, did not know the difference between good and evil.  Then along came this serpent and offered them god's forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge... or was that all part of the ineffible plan?

There is a really good theme in some of the later Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice- one of the characters happens to catch a glimpse of the Devil and God talking in a parisian cafe.  The Devil is pleading with God to be allowed to leave his post, he can't understand why God put him there in the first palce and seriously can't stand it...

I've also heard that angels have no free will, can't choose whether to be good or bad, so it all has to go back to God, Lucifer and his cohorts couldn't have rejected God's plans, it would have been impossible.

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#14 MoonChild

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 08:52 AM

Did God not want us to be perfect beings, and lucifer then offered us sin? or am I getting confused.


God, as I have mentioned elsewhere in a thread, has given us the POWER TO CHOOSE! We have the rational thoughts power, and what we make of this, well, why blame God and satan?

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#15 Mykiedave

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Posted 27 January 2004 - 12:39 PM

Another school of thought was that Lucifer (who's name means the Radiant One) was God's favorite, then when God created man Lucifer was angry and jealous because God gave man the one thing Angels didn't have, free will. Beause God gave them the ability to choose Lucife fealt that man was being favored over the Angels so he waged war on God. Thats just one of the theories I;ve heard. The Demons are the Angels who were cast out, so of course they blame mankind for their fall from Grace. There is also an interesting theory that Fairies were the Angels that refused to take sides, so while they were banished from heaven they weren't damned nor stripped of their great beauty or powers. Kind of cool huh?
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