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Do Gods have rules?


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#1 whispers_of_fire

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 01:53 PM

A few weeks ago a really good friend and I were debating religion and naturally, the topic of God came up. She asked why God just didn't destroy this world and I shared my belief that I think there are Laws that even the gods can't flaunt or-at the least-there's an OverGod, who maintains balances in all cosmoi.

Before I go on,I should add that I think one of the Cosmic rules is that energy/magick was made to create or to modify/
alter, it can't be used to unmake without GRAVE repercussions to any who would attempt something like this. No...not destroy, to unmake, which*IMHO*implies removing all traces of something's existance, to obliterate, it, even the memory that it existed in the first place.

So...what do you all think? Are there gods above the Gods? [smiley=cwm24.gif]
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#2 JennaLaLune

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 03:34 PM

Well..do you beleive in infinite dimensions? That is to say, that we exist in the third, well....that we are only fully aware of three anyways. That a fourth exists where there are fourth dimensional beings who see everything in and can alter anything in the third? (Angels, Gods, possibly Aliens?..etc) Continuing so on and so forth up into higher dimentions. But each would have its limitations!
We can barely tap into the fourth through deep meditation, astral projection, magic, visions and so fourth but can never completely comprehend the fourth in its entirety. We would consider a fourth dimensional being a God because they could be anywhere at any time, see all and know all about our dimension. They would percieve it from all angles all at once...nothing would be hidden. To them it is like we are displayed in a glass case. BUT they are restricted by thier own dimension the way we are by ours. So, are there rules and limits to a "god's" power? I would say yes, they would be limited by the reality of thier own dimension. And although they would be capable of far more in this third dimension than we are, there would be another dimension right above them whose inhabitants are capable of that much more. This could quite possibly be and in theory IS an infinite process. If so, that would make up the overall LAW that cannot be altered. Higher dimensions altering and interracting with lower dimensions, either on purpose or by accident or both.

Now lets really scramble things up a bit. How much of an impact do you think a, hmmm..let's say, 1230th dimentional being has on our own? ??? Some negative dimentions are so tiny that we have no effect on them. The same would apply in this case right? So to answer your question as to wether there are "gods" above the "gods" I would say most certainly. But wouldn't that in turn make us gods? But which "gods" play an active role in our reality, dimension, plane of existance, etc.. is the real question, I think. And how much of it is on purpose and premeditated. We sometimes play an active part in the second dimension, and sometimes we do it by accident!
A fourth dimention can be proven mathematically....it does exist. Do our "Gods" dwell within? :)
We all know that energy cannot be destroyed...that would prevent any being from destroying any plane completely.
(Maybe it would have a domino effect if it did happen though?? hmmm.....for another day.)
Wow...sorry for rambling, I know these theories might be a little..hmm..sterile, but thats what I see if I stand back and look at the extremely large infitite picture! Hehe
;D  ;D ;D
"Science without Religion is lame, Religion without Science is Blind." -Albert Einstein

#3 whispers_of_fire

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 07:18 AM

Hi, Jenna,
WOW...lots and lots to ponder. Okay, if I remember right, its speculated that the 4th Dimension is time and as cool as it would be to run into and warn a past/present self NOT to go meet one of my ex's, wouldn't it change the outcome or significant events of that self's life*HEY! Better than a burning bush and I would be the equivalent of a god [smiley=cwm30.gif] I mean I wrote a LOT of really great stuff after some of my break-ups to vent that hurt and help me cope and go on*snickers*And I'd hate to think of a parallel world without my poetry [smiley=cwm35.gif]

Wait...are you equating dimensions with Parallel time? As an example, we're faced with literally thousands of choices every day, as an example, in the am you open your fridge, trying to figure out what you want for brekkers*it may get a little convoluted from hereon*I'm pretty much just a juice and coffee kinda guy, but what if I decide to grab something on the way? What if I get up early [smiley=cwm2.gif] and decide to make a breakfast of eggs, bacon, fried 'tatoes, aside from my bestest friend not yelling at me for not eating*or feeling like I was raised by the Cleavers*what happens to the choices not taken? Is there a ripple/a dimension created in which I sleep in, grab some apple juice and a Butterfingers' and head out and events are different? The same is true for grabbing a veinte Capp and biscotti at Starbucks on the way, is there a dimension created based on maybe meeting or seeing someone
or something there? [smiley=cwm9.gif]
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#4 JennaLaLune

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 06:08 PM

Actually the fourth dimension is not considered time. Thats a general misconception and simplification. Time is relative to all dimensions. And the way that you are viewing dimension is different than the way that I am. I am thinking of dimensions as a direction in space that is indescribable and incomprehensible ( I'll touch on that later), not lets say,.. like a parralel dimension where maybe theres another one of me living as a supermodel and dating Ben Afflek. And as far as choices in life go, that doesnt exactly change dimentional space either. I'm going to try explain this a little further, please bear with me. I've read a few books on this topic, so I may quote someone unknowingly. And I just got off a 9 hour shift.:'( Here we go..

We live in 3D space. There is a fourth above us (or all around us??) and a second below us, for lack of better terms. If you draw a square on a piece of paper you are creating a 2D object. You can see every side of the square and inside of the square. So, in essence you are an omnipotent presence in this little square's life. The square is limited to the plane it inhabits....the piece of paper. He can only slide along in 2D space, He can't, for example, peel himself off the paper and sit upright...that would put him in three dimentional space right? He can only see whats in front of him on the piece of paper. If another square were to slide up to him, Mr. square would only see a line in front of him. Kinda the way that if you walked up to me I would only see the 3D image of your front side...I can't see your backside right? Are you following me?? ::)
  Okay now...lets say Jenna takes her finger and pushes it through the piece of paper right in front of our square. What does he see then? He sees this bizarre fleshy line that has appeared out of nowhere. He doesnt know what UP or DOWN is, nor can he percieve it. He can only move forward and backward on his 2D plane. Now try to explain what you are to this square...good luck cuz you'll need it. To him you would be godlike....you could appear at any time anwhere in his 2D world...because you see it ALL... He sees whats flat on the paper in front of him...you see his entire world in a glance and can appear anywhere in it by just poking your finger through it.  

  Now picture this same exact scenario in our 3D space instead of Square's 2D. We see whats up, down, side to side and all around us in 3D. Thats more directions than Square can even fathom. But if there were a 4D being who was looking down on our simple little 3D space...he would see all of our sides and all of our insides...the same way we can see all of Square's insides and outside. Do you have a headache yet? Mr. 4D sees OUR world at a glance BECAUSE HE MOVES IN DIRECTIONS THAT WE CANNOT. These directions are traditionally known as "ana" and "kata". What or where are they? Who knows...but we know they are the next dimension of movement. Remember the scene in Poltergeist when they throw the tennis ball into the closet and it comes out of the ceiling in the living room downstairs? You could say the ball went "kata" to land itself in the living room. We can't move "kata" but Mr. 4D can...wouldnt that seem Godlike to us? Here's the brain scrambler. The same way that I moved DOWN into 2D space, "God" would move "ana" or "kata" into our space. He would magically appear out of nowhere from a direction we have no concept of. He could also perform seemingly unbelievable feats by "poking his finger" into our space and messing things up.
  Now, I'm calling him "God" for a lack of a better term. Some people think angels are fourth dimensional beings, as well as demons, the mothman, and even aliens. This could explain thier sudden appearances, miraculous feats, and also thier ability to disappear when a camera pops up. ;D They just "kata" themselves the hell outta there.
  This is a HUGE SIMPLIFICATION of higher dimentional theory, but maybe it gives you a better idea of how god and law can be percieved in a scientific/mathmatical way. Not that my spiritual beleifs are really that "cold" but I can't help but obey the laws of physics and science in the meanwhile. This is something I have spent alot of time considering and working into my already strong spirituality.

"Science without Religion is lame, Religion without Science is Blind." -Albert Einstein

#5 MoonChild

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Posted 24 December 2003 - 10:42 AM

Time is something we know as it is, because of the sunrise and sunset. But we NEED the help of time - in whatsoever manner - to help us guide and THINK to understand the mysteries better

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#6 spiritdragon

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Posted 01 January 2004 - 04:49 PM

A few weeks ago a really good friend and I were debating religion and naturally, the topic of God came up. She asked why God just didn't destroy this world and I shared my belief that I think there are Laws that even the gods can't flaunt or-at the least-there's an OverGod, who maintains balances in all cosmoi.

Before I go on,I should add that I think one of the Cosmic rules is that energy/magick was made to create or to modify/
alter, it can't be used to unmake without GRAVE repercussions to any who would attempt something like this. No...not destroy, to unmake, which*IMHO*implies removing all traces of something's existance, to obliterate, it, even the memory that it existed in the first place.

So...what do you all think? Are there gods above the Gods? [smiley=cwm24.gif]

You forgot to mention a God or Goddess cannot create something out of nothing.

#7 Justa

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 06:44 PM

Supposing that there is a finite amount of dimensions, planes, or whatever you believe in.  When you reach the pinnacle, there is one deity in charge.  What would that entity have to answer to, if it broke the rules?  Would it be similar to what we base our government on? One person in charge, but answering to a governing body of people?  Or one god, answering to a body of lesser gods?  Or could this God just do as they please, because they are all powerful?  I am interested to see what the different beliefs teach.


Jenna, thankyou for simplifying that. :o  If I see a huge finger come through my floor, I will know who to call.  :)  (Just teasing you, I like your analogy)
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#8 spiritdragon

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 11:27 AM

Supposing that there is a finite amount of dimensions, planes, or whatever you believe in.  When you reach the pinnacle, there is one deity in charge.  What would that entity have to answer to, if it broke the rules?  Would it be similar to what we base our government on? One person in charge, but answering to a governing body of people?  Or one god, answering to a body of lesser gods?  Or could this God just do as they please, because they are all powerful?  I am interested to see what the different beliefs teach.


Jenna, thankyou for simplifying that. :o  If I see a huge finger come through my floor, I will know who to call.  :)  (Just teasing you, I like your analogy)

I was thinking of something similiar to what I read about the travels of a monk and the Monkey King (The Jade Emperor and his court).

#9 UnkleBunny

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Posted 10 January 2004 - 02:33 PM

personally, I've always used the Ant Farm Theory, in that this particular realm is an ant farm, on the desk of another's desk.... if you want to get intot he stacking universes, theory... then it's jsut one universe, encased in another.... my own personal private wonderings... is, that if God Created us, then who created God? and who does God pray to, at night?

#10 MoonChild

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 12:47 AM

my own personal private wonderings... is, that if God Created us, then who created God? and who does God pray to, at night?


the problem is that we tend to "see" God as a physical HUMANE entity, but the GOD represents the ONE - the Supreme Being that encompasses ALL OVER and EVERYWHERE, the energy that IS.

Take my hand and we'll go riding through the sunshine from above


#11 hunnyfire

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 04:52 AM

Well said Moon :)
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#12 Vampchick21

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 05:26 AM

Hmmm....a lot of mythology exists to attempt to explain if deities have laws, rules and bounderies, as well as explaining creation.  (On a slightly off centre note...have you ever noticed how the Big Bang theory of creation is similar to many ancient creation myths?).

Dimensions...well...I totally can't wrap my wee little brain around that, despite the wonderful attempt at explaining it.  :)  This I freely admit to.  (But then...I still don't grasp the time theory played with in that Star Trek movie that had the old and new Trek folks either...)

As far as I stand, I try not to think about it.  Tends to cause headaches.

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#13 Yosei

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 11:00 AM

The dimensional theory makes sense...but what gets me is why anyone should assume God would *want* to just utterly destroy the world.  As an artist, even my most flawed pictures have a meaning to me and a life of their own that I could never bring myself to simply wipe out of existence. If we assume an intentional act of creation, surely this comes from the same kind of mindset that moves an earthly creator?  
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#14 MoonChild

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 11:10 AM

PUPPETS! we are all! lol......

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#15 anasuya

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Posted 25 June 2004 - 06:50 PM

I'm an artist and I throw away pictures ALL the time! lol. I get tired of looking at them, come up with something better, etc. The reasons are endless depending on my mood. Why wouldn't that ultimate God, or ANY God have similar moods?

I like the theory of multiple dimensions, but the idea of an infinite number of dimensions with an infinite number of gods kind of gives me a headache. Too many BAD_WORD choices! And honestly, it kind of takes the magick away when you look at it scientifically like that. It reminds me of that scene in Men in Black, when Will Smith opens the locker and all those little alien guys are bowing down to him, lol, yet he's, essentially, standing there going "what the heck are you worshipping? I'm not all that!"

I often wonder if God has limits, but I don't think so... or more specifically, I don't BELIEVE so. I believe he does what he does when a mood strikes. Imagine a woman on her period, and all those mood swings... now give that woman infinite power and knowledge, and THAT could be God. Yes, scary thought, but I believe that's how it works. This is, of course, because the idea of inifinite dimensions is just too much to think about. lol.

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