13 replies to this topic

[Casper2004]

hello everyone, i have this friend who has been kinda confusing becuase of her beliefs, she said she doesnt believe in paranormal, ghost, or extraterrestrials..... so i asked her if she believes in reincarnation... she said yes, and this really made me feel weird for her becuase if someone says they dont beleive in the paranormal and then says they believe in reincarnation, that doesnt make sense to me, becuase dont you have to b a ghost first before u riencarnate?? when i asked her this question she had no response

[CaveRat2]

I'll throw you another curve.... Who says ghosts have to involve anyone being dead?

Consider residual haunts. If they are factual, then energy could be left behind by the living. And that same energy might make its presence known the next day, or next year without regard to whether the one who left the energy was alive or dead at the time.

And what if the "ghosts" are actually interdimensional beings paying us a visit? If that is the case they certainly aren't dead. What if they are just observing us like we do animals in a zoo? Maybe THEY are simply making us BELIEVE ghosts have something to do with dying to watch our reaction.

(Hey Gruznoztch... Poke them with a stick and let's see what happens.... )

And maybe ghosts are simply a figment of our imagination. Or even more intriguing, maybe some form of external influence or energy is manipulating US to make us BELIEVE we are seeing ghosts..If so where does THAT originate???...

Gets interesting when you start thinking outside the traditional ghost theory, doesn't it....

[Casper2004]

very interesting , i never thought of that before

[Cryscat]

"dont you have to b a ghost first before u riencarnate?"

First this sentence is bugging me... Please, Please (not just you Casper but you are a good example) use REGULAR English not im or text. Punctuation and correct spelling please.

Don't you have to be a ghost first before you reincarnate?

NO.... you die, your spirit crosses over, does whatever in the other world, then reincarnates. No need to be a "ghost."

Edited by Cryscat, 16 August 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[White Witch]

CaveRat2 it does get interesting and could do a persons head in. LOL To me this woman doesn't make sense. Why believe in one and not the other? I suppose some people don't feel comfortable with someone that can't see being able to move around them at any point during their day.

[MoonChild]

A human body is consisted of various layers of body - the physical body being one, which is physiccally visible. The other layers are more subtle on the energy level. Mostly the phenomenon called Ghosts involve the Etehric Body, which is identicaly to the physical body in all aspects except that is is gross energy. Reincarnation and ghosts may not have any connection usually. Talking about the residual hauntings too, it is the ehteric body which gets imprinted in the eteher which haunts repeatedly.

[meanderer]

It might be a little late to chime in on this thread, however, I found it interesting enough to add my two cents:

It's not a "rule" that you need to be a ghost before you enter another lifetime. Some souls are able to immediately reincarnate, while others are waiting for the right one to come along. Almost like having an advance boarding ticket for an airline flight. In my beliefs, it depends on whether a soul is ready to move on. If the soul has certain issues holding it back, it is held between the life before and the life that awaits it, either to resolve these issues or as punishment for transgressions from it's past. If a soul is at peace and it's ready to move on, then it will be able to reincarnate more easily.

While I'm at it, I'm reminded of a conversation I'd once had with a coworker about reincarnation, and my beliefs in general. I remember telling him that, in my beliefs, reincarnation is not linear - meaning, it doesn't follow our way of thinking about time...if you die in September 2012, it doesn't mean your soul would come back at a later date. Souls aren't bound by the way we regard time. If you die today, your soul could possibly go anywhere in time, even backwards. Have you ever met a child that seemed to have wisdom beyond their years? I'm not talking about a "smart" child...I'm talking about having actual wisdom; a way of looking at life that just doesn't seem to be the way a child would think. That could be an example of a person who's soul has actually come from another point in existence. We can't choose which direction in time our souls go. Nor could we choose where our souls go. We don't always go from human to human. Every living thing has a soul, or spirit. I'm actually hoping to be a well-cared-for house cat in my next life.

[jimmary]

Casper, no one knows how, what or why; it is all just guess work. As CaveRat wonderfully described (and I really like the examples), there are many theories, ideas, or conceptions to ponder, and it's all just theory with evidence that we don't understand beyond our worldly knowledge. Any of the examples of what he stated could be absolutely true or be completely false, but we won't know until we "move along". It is quite possible that we reincarnate, but how is completely unknown to us as there is no manual or step-by-step instructions describing how beyond what man has made up, so one can say whatever they want. Ancient writings to modern research is just man trying to understand what is not known about the after-life and most likely will not ever be known to this physical world, but it's still fun to try to figure it out. Meanderer described the possible after-life time comparison to how we follow time, which is fascinating to consider when thinking of how or if we could reincarnate.
In regards to the previous statement, I don't mean to come across as confrontational, but all theories we have about the paranormal are just that: theories. Too many peopel pass theory along as fact when it's just something they previously read, just believe, or maybe experienced privately or in an investigation. It just drives me crazy sometimes, but that's me.
Casper, how your friend believes isn't consistent with standard after-life beliefs that would coincide with reincarnation, but in this field anyone can believe whatever and however they want.

[CaveRat2]

The problem with all this is that the paranormal seems to delve into areas covered by religion. Most religious beliefs are just that, beliefs. By nature they are unprovable and must be accepted entirely on faith. When we get into this realm absolutes no longer hold sway. For instance the OP assumes reincarnation is expected. From my religious philosophy there is no reincarnation nor "stuck spirits" . I believe the soul departs the body at death and is given a new spiritual body. This is, unless God has some special purpose, entirely separate from the realm of humans. We get one go-round and move on; no returning or second chances.

Now of course I can't prove this any more than one can prove any other religious doctrine. These are the tenets of faith. On the other side we have what we study here; alleged .paranormal events. Some of these can be resolved entirely as mundane everyday things using strict scientific protocols. As an investigator this is where I begin every investigation, looking for the simple truths.

Where it becomes interesting is merging these two opposing ideas. Just where does one draw the line and to what degree does one compromise their religious beliefs based on something unproven coming from the earthly side? My personal thoughts on this require that anything that encroaches on what I believe in faith (religion) must be able to back up its stand using solid, hard evidence before I will compromise my religious teachings.

Take reincarnation as an example. There have been many claims from many people. In fact some religions even teach it. But I would need to see absolute proof before I accept it since runs 100% counter to my religious beliefs. That proof to date has not come. Lest some think I am taking a hard line stand against all aspects of what would be deemed paranormal, not so.

Another area of paranormal investigation deals with aliens, Bigfoot, even residual haunts. These could easily exist along side my current religious beliefs therefore the level of proof required for me to accept them is not quite so high. The reason is simple, they do not require me to change anything in my current belief structure, only accept something new.in addition to what I already accept. Not saying I would blindly accept any of them, but only the level required to convince me is not quite as high.

Hope this explains a bit about how I resolve some of these issues. It may not apply to everyone and that's also OK. To each his own..

[SeekX]

White Witch, on 17 August 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

CaveRat2 it does get interesting and could do a persons head in. LOL To me this woman doesn't make sense. Why believe in one and not the other? I suppose some people don't feel comfortable with someone that can't see being able to move around them at any point during their day.

I think it is just a different way of seeing things , different perspectives , different beliefs.
It makes sense to them that is whoever believes whatever they believe else they would not believe it,

I have a niece who is an atheist and she can see ghost like I see people or so she believes .
In fact I can vouch when she was to young to read in a visit to the blue ridged mountains we had come across a place where there was a plaque that explained what we were looking at was an incinerator that had been used to burn diseased bodies ,
She asked to leave as soon as she got out of the car said she did not like that place there were dead people there.

On the other hand I personally am a Christian and she can not understand how I can believe in God knowing some of the things I know ; it is all about beliefs and perspectives.

[jimmary]

SeekX,. I too am an atheist and changed my mind on the after-life after confronting my first ghost. Spiritual happenings have occured in my family as far back as I can remember, but it had never happened to me until 1995. I have since seen two others and have had plenty of other experiences. With that said, I still have my belief (or non-belief, depending on one's view) firmly in place. I can side with your niece and I do get aggrevated by the religious angle of many ghost believers, but I know everyone has their own beliefs and opinions on how this whole thing works. My wife being a christian has her own views as a ghost believer. so we discuss it from time to time. She's also a chemistry and physics teacher, so all of that is taken into consideration.
I guess I'm not as open as others to all angles of belief in the paranormal relm, but at least I'm trying.

[SeekX]

jimmary, on 04 October 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

SeekX,. I too am an atheist and changed my mind on the after-life after confronting my first ghost. Spiritual happenings have occured in my family as far back as I can remember, but it had never happened to me until 1995. I have since seen two others and have had plenty of other experiences. With that said, I still have my belief (or non-belief, depending on one's view) firmly in place. I can side with your niece and I do get aggrevated by the religious angle of many ghost believers, but I know everyone has their own beliefs and opinions on how this whole thing works. My wife being a christian has her own views as a ghost believer. so we discuss it from time to time. She's also a chemistry and physics teacher, so all of that is taken into consideration.
I guess I'm not as open as others to all angles of belief in the paranormal relm, but at least I'm trying.

I can certainly appreciate your position , well maybe you can not be as open to all angles but on the other hand I would think you can remain more objective to the angles that you are open to.
About my niece though , it is not that I question her being an atheist but the other way around she questions why I am not.
She was not born an atheist though , she was raised Christian and went to a Christian school and since became Pentecostal then a Jew and then Mormon then an atheist.

At least she considered several possibilities before deciding that.

[MrGrimm]

To add into CaveRat's curveball, some believe that our world is only one of a multiple of world dimensions, and ghosts could be the result of two or more dimensions colliding at one point in time, and the ghost apparitions are actually people from the other dimension.

But, in trying to answer your question, well.. there is really no easy or right answer. It's all theory and your own or a culture's belief on what ghosts really are.

[jimmary]

SeekX, you hit the nail on the head with the remark about remaining more objective. That's how I see myself whether it's factual or not. I tell people regarding all of this that I don't have religious beliefs "cluttering up" my objectiveness. No disrespect to those religious.
As for your niece, I kind of followed that same route (born to a baptist father and catholic mother), though it was mainly to appease others. I kept coming back to my internal beliefs about it all (initially formed at a very young age). Hell, I even almost became a mason to satisfy my ex-wife's family's desire that I do so. I got to a point where I told them it's just not me. After my brother died in 1996, I told myself "Screw it, life is too short; believe what you want. Declare your position and stand strong.", and I have ever since. And no, I'm not a militant atheist; I love Christmas and other religious holiday. I recognize their spiritual value. So regarding your niece, as long as it's not something that's harming her, I guess just let her find her way, and it appears that you guys do. But stand your ground about your beliefs; she just needs to realize that religious beliefs aren't one size fits all.
MrGrimm, that's just more brain-scrambling; thinking beyond what we see before us. My wife is a physics teacher, so we get into discussions about deminsions. I come from a layman's angle, whereas she comes from her...brainy...side. The more I read and discuss, the more I see the possibilities. It can really blow a mind. Yep, it's all theory until we can "cross over" without actually crossing over and come back with notes or a manual, if that will ever happen.