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Early Christian Heresies


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#1 Vampchick21

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 12:20 PM

Hey,

If anyone here has an abiding interest in the study of Early Christianity and the various heresies, here's a link to one that I just discovered.  The Pelagian Heresy. Apparently a theologian in Britian named Pelagius challenged St. Augustine on his stance on Original Sin and the salvation of mankind.  Very interesting stuff.

I particularly enjoy this kind of thing, because it allows me to see the roots of modern day Christianity, and allows me to better understand.

Anyway, for those interested, here's a link to an essay on it.

http://www.heretical...deasarchive.htm

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#2 Gregory

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 01:25 PM

It always depresses me when a largely sensible philosophy like Pelagian's get stomped on by an inane (no offense intended to the Christians here, but this is how I feel) philosophy like original sin.
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#3 Vampchick21

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 05:13 PM

Well, at the same time, this debate originally took place in the 5th century A.D., and the Christian faiths practiced by these two men were rather different.  This was prior to Nicene, where Constantine basically told the Church Fathers of the time to 'get it together' to put it one way.  :) Pelagius, being from Britian, was from what I can tell, a member of what is now referred to as Celtic Christianity, whereas St. Augustine was Eastern Orthodox.

Here's a link to some more stuff from St. Augustine's point of view on this particular heresy  http://www.ccel.org/...PNF1-05/TOC.htm

And here's some more stuff from Pelagius' point of view.  http://www.brojed.org/pelagius.html
http://www.wku.edu/~...s/pelagius.html

Crips!  I think this is the entire debate!

http://www.ccel.org/...npnf1-05-20.htm

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#4 Alsie R.

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 06:20 PM

can someone PLEASE explain to me what's going on here?
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#5 Caesar

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Posted 31 May 2004 - 06:21 PM

can someone PLEASE explain to me what's going on here?

I say that to myself all the time :)

#6 Vampchick21

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 05:40 AM

lol...sorry Alsie.  What this is is basically a theological debate that took place in the 5th century A.D. between St. Augustine and a monk or lay person named Pelagius.  The debate was in regards to Original Sin, Mankind's Salvation and God's Grace.  Read the first article I posted, as it pretty much explains the conflicting points of view between the two men, the pros and cons of each and the reasons why St. Augustine's point of view became prevalent in the Church rather than Pelagius.

A heresy is basically a theological viewpoint that does not fall into line with the standard viewpoint of the Church's existing theology.  I don't think anyone really cries 'heresy' anymore though, but at one point, a heretical viewpoint could get you into a lot of trouble.  It's quite interesting to take a look at the many different heresies (and there are TONNES of them).

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#7 aumstead

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 06:20 AM

Do you think the reason there is no more heresy cases is because the reformation took root?
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#8 Vampchick21

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 06:34 AM

hmmm...good question.  I'm not sure, but it COULD contribute to it.  Of course, during the early days of the Reformation, many reformers found themselves in the hands of the Inquistion, or excommunicated.  (on another note, it was the Protestants of the time that were really into buring 'witches')

But I digress....lol

It could be a combination of many things, the reformation included.  That's something I'd have to look into.

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#9 aumstead

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 06:36 AM

I want to see if the is any protestant churches that have a heresy command too.
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#10 Vampchick21

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 06:43 AM

I think that there were.  Right now, I've been focusing on fairly early heresies from the beginnings of the Christian Church, when they were still debating and piecing things together.  

On the Protestant end, I would think that there are so many Protestant denominations (when I was growing up, my Catholic family taught me that the three main lines of Christianity were Catholic, Greek Orthodox and Protestant, and the various denominations were branches of these three) with so many different theological views is because the reformers couldn't agree any more than the Early Church Fathers could.  So I would think that some of the various denominations under the Protestant banner were considered heretical by the Reformers.  

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#11 aumstead

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 06:45 AM

Yes I see what you are doing...
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#12 Vampchick21

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 06:53 AM

?  

Actually, I'm not 100% sure in the end.  I never studied theology in school, so I'm no theolgian, and I could be waaaaay off base.

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#13 aumstead

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 07:00 AM

I would think not as you have read into it a bit.
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#14 Vampchick21

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 07:27 AM

:)  

Yeah, It's one of my obsessions, but I'm self taught and therefore prone to error.  I get mixed up from time to time.  Like...i just realized that the debate between St. Augustine and Pelagius took place AFTER the Council of Nicene and not before like I said earlier :)

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#15 aumstead

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 07:34 AM

hmmm...at least you correct your mistakes!
Ashley Umstead"DEEP DOWN INSIDE WE ARE ALL SMART-ASSES--I JUST HAPPEN TO BE SHALLOW"




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