38 replies to this topic

[Night]

I believe a complex mixture of beliefs from my distain of organized religion and how my mind is. The simplist explaination is that I believe in the spiritual and physical and that all spiritual beings exist.

To go more complex... I believe that we humans along with other species are both spiritual and physical. When the physical body dies, the spiritual joins the spiritual aspect fully again. I believe that every being makes themselves spiritually and makes other beings. Gods are made from the belief of many people, if no one believed in them then they would die and gods have more influence if they have more worshippers. Spirits are the spiritual aspect of people freed back into the spirit and they can go into the spirit zones people make... The afterlifes. Or they can become ghosts and stay around in the spiritual copy of a house. Esp is more connection with the spirit and mediumship is the same...

I'd explain more but that isn't really the purpose of this. I was just giving you a general idea so I can explain that I agree the physical will die because the physical has rules. By the rules and natural laws, all things eventually die or break down physically. Not even trees live forever or rocks. So the end of the physical world will happen at one point in time. However, I believe the spirit and the imprints of these... The spirits of ourselves and everything will survive.

If you want me to explain this more... Pm me or ask me to put the whole concept in another category... My dad says I need to write a book about it... -_-" But that's my thoughts on this subject.

[The V]

Well, let's see...I'm a pantheist, with strong influences from Satanism, Chaos magic, and quantum mechanics. I don't believe that anything ends, much less "the world." Forms change, certainly, but nothing ever truly ends. Matter becomes energy, energy becomes matter...energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It just becomes something different. Some people see these transitions as destructive, as endings, but that's just because their perspective is too narrow. If we only look at the Universe from our own, singular perspectives, then naturally we're going to see "beginnings" and "endings" everywhere we look. If we allow ourselves to shuck off our Egos once in a while, we see that everything is a lot more eternal than we expected.

[Shawn333]

The V, on Jun 11 2009, 01:14 AM, said:

Well, let's see...I'm a pantheist, with strong influences from Satanism, Chaos magic, and quantum mechanics. I don't believe that anything ends, much less "the world." Forms change, certainly, but nothing ever truly ends. Matter becomes energy, energy becomes matter...energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It just becomes something different. Some people see these transitions as destructive, as endings, but that's just because their perspective is too narrow. If we only look at the Universe from our own, singular perspectives, then naturally we're going to see "beginnings" and "endings" everywhere we look. If we allow ourselves to shuck off our Egos once in a while, we see that everything is a lot more eternal than we expected.

Yes technically it wouldn't end, but it would be the end as we know it if the planet completely exploded like Krypton or something.

If someone were to say....set YOU on fire then I'm guessing you would also see this "transition" as destructive even though it's just a change of energy. It's just another beginning for you. And I wouldn't blame you if you had trouble shucking off your ego and were just looking at it from your singular perspective. After all it's hard to be open minded when you're on fire. Because being on fire hurts.

[singingcedar]

There are a few native american prophecies that call for a "big change" A return to carrying for our mother earth and a return to traditional ways. Or face the consequence of our actions and how mother earth is responding to what we are doing to her. I can't remember now which euro paganism this comes from but I seem to remember a prophecy of earth mother waking father sky to whip us all back into shape...

[The V]

Shawn333, on Jun 12 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

Yes technically it wouldn't end, but it would be the end as we know it if the planet completely exploded like Krypton or something.

If someone were to say....set YOU on fire then I'm guessing you would also see this "transition" as destructive even though it's just a change of energy. It's just another beginning for you. And I wouldn't blame you if you had trouble shucking off your ego and were just looking at it from your singular perspective. After all it's hard to be open minded when you're on fire. Because being on fire hurts.

As far as your first point, we have a difference of opinion on that. I don't believe it would be the end as we know it. It would be more correct to say something like "the end as we can conceive of it at this moment in our existence."

As far as your second paragraph, I'm choosing to take your words at face value as opposed to reading into them to gauge your intent. I can say that, while I would almost definitely see being set on fire as a destructive event, I would still be wrong in the grand scheme of things. And to clarify, my use of "Ego" is in the "sense of self" vein as opposed to the "self-centered/arrogant" one. There are few things in this world more effective than severe physical pain when it comes to reinforcing the Ego. There aren't many people who could overcome that in that situation. But again, just because we experience something one way doesn't mean it's an objective truth. It simply means that's the way we're experiencing it.

[Shawn333]

The V, on Jun 14 2009, 01:32 AM, said:

Shawn333, on Jun 12 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

Yes technically it wouldn't end, but it would be the end as we know it if the planet completely exploded like Krypton or something.

If someone were to say....set YOU on fire then I'm guessing you would also see this "transition" as destructive even though it's just a change of energy. It's just another beginning for you. And I wouldn't blame you if you had trouble shucking off your ego and were just looking at it from your singular perspective. After all it's hard to be open minded when you're on fire. Because being on fire hurts.

As far as your first point, we have a difference of opinion on that. I don't believe it would be the end as we know it. It would be more correct to say something like "the end as we can conceive of it at this moment in our existence."

Those are exactly the same. Or I should say that I was using "as we know it," to mean the same thing that you just said. As we know it at this point in our existence. I figured that was implied because no one would say "as we know it," to mean some future point of knowing. We actually don't have a difference of opinion on that at all.

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As far as your second paragraph, I'm choosing to take your words at face value as opposed to reading into them to gauge your intent. I can say that, while I would almost definitely see being set on fire as a destructive event, I would still be wrong in the grand scheme of things. And to clarify, my use of "Ego" is in the "sense of self" vein as opposed to the "self-centered/arrogant" one. There are few things in this world more effective than severe physical pain when it comes to reinforcing the Ego. There aren't many people who could overcome that in that situation.

No one should ever read too much into my posts to gauge intent. The mods here that know me would probably find that idea hilarious.
I frequently post after long bouts of insomnia and sometimes while drunk. My only intent here was to make a point using some lame humor and an extreme scenario. The point being that while what you said is totally correct, it's extremely hard for humans to divorce the ego from the ultimate reality. "Ego" being used in the Buddhist sense of self....the same as what you just described and I figured that's what you meant. I used the extreme pain scenario because that's when it's the hardest for a person to let go of the ego (self.) Which is again pretty much what you just said.

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But again, just because we experience something one way doesn't mean it's an objective truth. It simply means that's the way we're experiencing it.

THIS I totally agree with even though I've come to that conclusion through different spiritual paths than yours. But I also think that it's OK and NORMAL for humans to see and think of things from the narrow human perspective. It just is what it is and becomes their individual truth whether it contradicts some greater reality or not. You can't expect most people to accept death, change, or the perceived destruction of the world in a calm, philosophical, and spiritual manner. The overwhelming majority just won't see it any other way than from their own view point and I don't think that we should expect them to. Other than that opinion, I don't think we disagree much at all.

[The V]

After reading your elaboration, I can see that we actually are in agreement for the most part. I tend to be a bit of a literalist at times (we lose a lot online, vocal inflection, facial expression, etc.) so I definitely like when people take a few moments to explain themselves further.

I did not mean to imply that there is anything inherently wrong with seeing the world through the narrow lens of the self, so if I did, my bad. I certainly wouldn't condemn something that the vast majority of people, myself included, are guilty of a lot of the time. Quite frankly, I don't know that a lot of people could actually handle a bout of full Ego loss.

I do find it interesting, though, that we have taken what seem to be very different paths and reached essentially the same conclusions. That serves to further back up my belief that there is some sort of absolute truth out there, and that most religions past and present can at least get one started in the right direction, if not take us all the way there. Quite fascinating.

[Shawn333]

The V, on Jun 16 2009, 10:38 PM, said:

I do find it interesting, though, that we have taken what seem to be very different paths and reached essentially the same conclusions. That serves to further back up my belief that there is some sort of absolute truth out there, and that most religions past and present can at least get one started in the right direction, if not take us all the way there. Quite fascinating.

Yeah, I find that really interesting too. And I completely agree with that entire statement. I stumbled on to that way of thinking just from knowing a diverse group of people with different beliefs and backgrounds and trying to be more or less open minded in life. That's sometimes easier said than done for me at least. It lead me to reading up on and studying all kinds of religions from the mainstream to the obscure. I tend to see a lot of positives and similarities in most religions and spiritual paths, even the frequently misunderstood ones. Anyway I have a bad habit of rambling and taking threads off topic so I better shut up now. It's been good talking to you.

[The V]

Likewise, Shawn. Have a great day.