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#16 juliet_keller

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 01:03 PM

I just watched on my DVR, had to avoid this topic until I did.
Something I noticed that I would have done differently: They talked about being from the North, footsteps, north again, then invited whomever it was to join them. The way it was edited at least, it seemed someone then sat down next to Jay, and the whole feel the couch thing began. I hope I would have thanked them for joining me and started asking questions or talking to them!


Same here on both counts - DVR and feeling up the poor spirit.

The biggest thing that bothered me was that Kris actually got physically sick. I'm a little bit of an emet (fear of vomiting) and so was kind of upset that a spirit could make me ill (if it turns out she's not hypersensitive). Does anyone have an experience with a spirit or entity making someone ill?




I gotta make this quick....yes, I have been made sick to my stomach before. Dave and I were in Morely music Hall within a 20 minute time period of entering the building I started to feel sick to my stomach and a little woozy, Dave said I looked a little pale (pretty sad since I go tanning), we figured it might be because we had not eaten yet, so we went for lunch. Within 10 minutes of leaving the music hall I was feeling fine, we got some lunch. About 2 hrs. later Dave said want to go back again....sure, I said, why not? Again within about 35 minutes I sat down on the stage because I felt like I was going to pass out. As soon as I got outside I was fine. Something just did not want me in there that day. There was one other episode when I was up in the balcony of the hall a few years ago, I just started sweating, it was just pouring off of me (yeah it was warm in the building, but not that warm) I couldn't get over how hot I was. I yelled down to Dave about how bad I was sweating and that the back of my tank top was soaked with sweat. He took a picture....wouldn't you know (We've never seen anything like this, and if I could find the picture I would post it in a heart beat) but there was a 25 ft. reddish orb completely around me in the balcony. As far as that Chris girl getting sick, I'm not saying that I'm weak but spirits do tend to go for the weaker being...my opinion it's an easy shot to get to their energy supply than a stronger person. So, yes than can make a person ill. On other note, I know that they cut the show, but Grant and Jason are the producers of the show, so they do have say with what is being shown, and what gives them the right to base any place upon investigating it one time only if it is haunted or not? One time is not enough to base that conclusion or to even say if it is a residual haunting, they are going on hearsay not fact...Julie
You know our love was meant to be, the kind of love that lasts foreverAnd I want you here with, from tonight until the end of time,You're the meaning in my life, You're the inspiration,You bring feeling to my life, You're the inspiration,No one needs you more than I need you...You're the Inspiration~ChicagoI Love You, Baby!Julie and Dave are "The Spirit Stalkers of Ohio"www.thespiritstalkersofohio.webs.comCome see what we are all about, our galleries of evidence, and we would love for you to sign our guest book!

#17 Vampchick21

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 01:47 PM

Or, they're going on the evidence THEY collected during the course of THEIR investigation, of which we only see bits and pieces of during the airing of the television show.

Since neither you nor I are actually there for any of it, only sitting in front of the television (or in my case, computer screen), who's to say how many times they've been to any given location in the show, how long they spent there or just how much footage they've got to go through each time.

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#18 juliet_keller

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 02:34 PM

You're right on what we are seeing on what they are airing, but if Jason and Grant are the producers of the show or even part of the production team wouldn't they have the rights on what would be editted for television? Now this is just my opinion, but normally, especially with the Cashtown Inn Jason and Grant were very excited to investigate there because they stated that they had never been to Cashtown /Gettysburg before and this is not the first time that I have heard them make remarks about going on investigations. "That they can't wait to investigate because they've heard the stories." So, in my opinion that leads me to conclude that they are basing there conclusion off of their evidence off of one investigation. Now I have heard them say, "That they will be back, that there is further investigations that need to be examined, because they believe that it is a possible haunting." Normally they do say say how much footage that they have to go over from when the time they go dark to the time that they wrap it up, I've heard them say many times okay I think we have enough footage to go over about 7 hours worth and so forth. Julie
You know our love was meant to be, the kind of love that lasts foreverAnd I want you here with, from tonight until the end of time,You're the meaning in my life, You're the inspiration,You bring feeling to my life, You're the inspiration,No one needs you more than I need you...You're the Inspiration~ChicagoI Love You, Baby!Julie and Dave are "The Spirit Stalkers of Ohio"www.thespiritstalkersofohio.webs.comCome see what we are all about, our galleries of evidence, and we would love for you to sign our guest book!

#19 Vampchick21

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 02:43 PM

Just because they have producer credits does not mean they have the final say. I assume there are more producers who are not members of TAPS and have an interest/understanding solely at the television entertainment end of things. Chances are majority rules....or Network Head Office Rules.

Again, none of us are part of those meetings. Besides, since it's TV, there are far more factors involved in what goes to air than what non-televised investigators have to deal with.

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#20 juliet_keller

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 04:12 PM

I hear ya on that on Vamp, and that's sad, because it seems that they would rather play more on the drama business than the actual investigation itself, and that really bothers me because they are portraying themselves as professional investigators with all this drama. It also seems that they keep on explaining the same things over and over again...like EVP....I understand if you're new to the show but how many times within one season do they have to keep explaining it. I would like to see more documented terms and questions such as what is the difference between a spirit and a ghost, what is ecto, are most orbs environmental and so forth. I think that Sci-fi originally had this planned for a possible learning process with entertainment value, but in my opinion it's turning out to be a joke. I've looked at there website and found it to be very rude and not moderated at all well, it seems that anyone can join to be a sister team. Truthfully, I have much more respect for that new show on A&E. I know that every group has there own way of investigating, but TAPS just blows my mind...especially when they whisper while recording for EVPs. But back to what Dave was saying how can they base the recording of the footsteps as a residual haunting when it seemed to respond when Grant mentioned he was from the North....wouldn't that be an intelligent haunting? Dave and I were also discussing if there's such thing's as residual hauntings...is there or could there be a residual EVP? Julie
You know our love was meant to be, the kind of love that lasts foreverAnd I want you here with, from tonight until the end of time,You're the meaning in my life, You're the inspiration,You bring feeling to my life, You're the inspiration,No one needs you more than I need you...You're the Inspiration~ChicagoI Love You, Baby!Julie and Dave are "The Spirit Stalkers of Ohio"www.thespiritstalkersofohio.webs.comCome see what we are all about, our galleries of evidence, and we would love for you to sign our guest book!

#21 Vampchick21

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 05:33 PM

It's a television show. Just a tv show. It's geared towards the general viewing public. They actually ARE professional investigators as I understand it, and the group does investigations outside of the show that are never mentioned/shown and have been around much longer than the show. The drama et all? Television Show. Ratings. Entertaining general viewing public.

In other words, relax. It's just TV. Period. That one hour show is just that. A Television Show.

Not sure exactly what kind of criteria you expect to become a part of the TAPS network, I've never gone and looked it up myself. But given that the entire paranormal field is 'amature', I doubt anyone is looking for PhDs and restricting members/groups to those with a million years in the field, after all, if that were the case a great number of people would be excluded from entering.

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#22 Seeker

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 06:12 PM

Whats the new show on A&E?

There is a place here called Rolling Hills, a woman bought it sight unseen and moved her family to start a new life as the owner of a country mall. She hadn't thought about ghosts since she was a teenager. The mall failed and some of the vendors left without taking their stock with them. Fast forward, her new and unexpected life as the owner of a haunted building is failing, its literally days before foreclosure and a developer already has plans to tear it down and build an apartment complex.
TAPs came for an investigation, and with Darkness radio never left. They held a retreat and auction that netted thousands. I am assuming the members donated at least part of their fees because their individual names are on the "hefty" donation list. They even brought the owner with them to the Stanley hotel and held another auction there. This summers retreat was sold out before I even knew it was scheduled.
No matter what we gather from the TV show, its good entertainment (I personally love the show) and the members are truly good people. They've gone far above and beyond.

Edited by Seeker, 02 April 2008 - 06:13 PM.

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#23 YankeePyrate

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Posted 02 April 2008 - 06:13 PM

Yeah of all the times for them to not have their trusty FLIR...I couldn't believe they didn't go get it and do a follow up in the Gen Lee suite later on! Though I don't recall them using at all in that episode. Maybe the didn't have it this time around for some reason.
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#24 GPPI_JMe

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 07:03 AM

I would like to see more documented terms and questions such as what is the difference between a spirit and a ghost, what is ecto, are most orbs environmental and so forth.

EVP is something we've proven to exist. Whether it be from ghosts or not, there is no definite proof - but, it is a vocal phenomena that exists among electronically recorded mediums. Even putting attempted definitions of theoretical categories like spirits, ghosts, ecto, etc. in replace of a real phenomenon that has an established name and criteria..what's the point? They can't give a truly satisfactory explanation of the difference between spirits and ghosts, or what ecto is (but they do cover the fact that orbs are almost always environmental, in almost every single episode they hit this in the "analysis"). People criticize them enough for their own conclusions they derive from investigations - what would make you think they'd even bother defining something that has no true, set definition i.e. spirits, ghosts, ecto..? People on message boards would just complain and whine further about Jason and Grant's inability to do proper research and read the same definition they read out of 1 of thousands of texts on the subject.

But back to what Dave was saying how can they base the recording of the footsteps as a residual haunting when it seemed to respond when Grant mentioned he was from the North....wouldn't that be an intelligent haunting?

You used the right word here - "seemed." Again, unless they said in the episode exactly the time length they used to investigate the place, we have no clue how long they were actually there, hours or even days. Footsteps starting right after someone makes a comment does not indicate an intelligent haunting. Coincidence, possibly? Or maybe, just speaking between two people, at a certain volume level, releases enough energy to start the possible residual haunting in the Inn. Is it possible it's an intelligent haunt? Yes. Just because footsteps seemed to start up after speaking, that would make it non-residual. No. Research on residual haunts have shown that a catalyst is needed to start them up - otherwise we wouldn't be looking to prove anything as they would be playing at all haunted locations, at certain times everyday..

And as far as Jason and Grant and how the show turns out - they have repeatedly said, they only took the job to do the show because they were afraid someone else who was less professional would if they turned it down. Honestly, they're probably right. No, you may not agree with everything on the show. But, if you can't see the fact that multiple days of investigation is wrapped up in a 22, or if we're lucky 44 minute long episode, then perhaps you have other issues? There are a lot of investigators out there who wouldn't even bother debunking half the claims, just attempting to capture them on film, audio or video to prove the existence of paranormal phenomena - that's not how we get ahead in this field, and it never will be. Elimination of all natural, reasonable and logical explanations first is how we get to the paranormal aspect.

This isn't meant to be rude, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Everyone is giving their opinions - here was mine.
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#25 damckie

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 02:08 PM

I just watched on my DVR, had to avoid this topic until I did.
Something I noticed that I would have done differently: They talked about being from the North, footsteps, north again, then invited whomever it was to join them. The way it was edited at least, it seemed someone then sat down next to Jay, and the whole feel the couch thing began. I hope I would have thanked them for joining me and started asking questions or talking to them!


Same here on both counts - DVR and feeling up the poor spirit.

The biggest thing that bothered me was that Kris actually got physically sick. I'm a little bit of an emet (fear of vomiting) and so was kind of upset that a spirit could make me ill (if it turns out she's not hypersensitive). Does anyone have an experience with a spirit or entity making someone ill?

That is one way that they can attack you. Juliet has gotten very sick while we were once inside of Morley Music hall. She was white as a ghost.no pun intended) We left and went to get a bite to eat at a haunted B&B. After we ate, I hadto ask Julie if we should go back and see if we can finish our investigation. She said yes :whoohoo: It was probably 15 minutes into the investigation, I looked over at Julie and I can see that she didn't feel well. The spirits attatcked her again. We packed up and left the hall. Another time that we were there, I was taking some pics on the upper balcony and Julie walked up to me and she didn't look very well. She had sweat pouring all down her face and it was a cool spring day. I was fine. When I got the pics back, she was standing in a huge orb, no kidding! This thing was huge! So yes, they can drain you make you sick. Dave

Edited by damckie, 03 April 2008 - 02:10 PM.

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#26 damckie

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 02:11 PM

oops, story all ready told. Dave
Two hearts drawn together bound by destiny. Every road leads to your door...."Will you still love me?" By Chicago. Love is the reason we'll never be alone. In love, in love.... "I believe." By Chicago. I LOVE YOU JULIET!!! The Spirit Stalker of Ohio "BREAK ON THROUGH TO THE OTHER SIDE" The Doors! GOOD DAVE HUNTING

#27 juliet_keller

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 09:38 PM

It's a television show. Just a tv show. It's geared towards the general viewing public. They actually ARE professional investigators as I understand it, and the group does investigations outside of the show that are never mentioned/shown and have been around much longer than the show.

In other words, relax. It's just TV. Period. That one hour show is just that. A Television Show.

Not sure exactly what kind of criteria you expect to become a part of the TAPS network, I've never gone and looked it up myself. But given that the entire paranormal field is 'amature', I doubt anyone is looking for PhDs and restricting members/groups to those with a million years in the field, after all, if that were the case a great number of people would be excluded from entering.


I understand it is just a t.v. show and it's one hour long, maybe 42 minutes tops without commercials, but it's becoming a trend or fad that people do follow, just like JLO or Hannah Montana. Groups and individuals do look up to them. You said so yourself that you consider them a "professional investigative team", then is it a double standard that you also mention that the entire paranormal field is amature. I do think that many groups out in the field like having their name associated with TAPS because of the status that their name carries. Do I want to have that criteria and status quo....nope. Yes, I do believe in alot of their beliefs but others I do not. You are correct in saying that we are all in the field for a common goal and a learning process....I am in firm 100% agreement with you. But do we really need the drama? The last show it showed how long the investion was 8 hours in Trinway Ohio, they not only heard the stories, but did the research as well, and yes it was their first visit there, but how can they base if it is haunted on a one time investigation or conclude if it's a residual haunting...that's the point I'm trying to make?

On A&E...It's Paranormal State on Mondays at 10:00 p.m.

I'l answer more tomorrow....Julie
You know our love was meant to be, the kind of love that lasts foreverAnd I want you here with, from tonight until the end of time,You're the meaning in my life, You're the inspiration,You bring feeling to my life, You're the inspiration,No one needs you more than I need you...You're the Inspiration~ChicagoI Love You, Baby!Julie and Dave are "The Spirit Stalkers of Ohio"www.thespiritstalkersofohio.webs.comCome see what we are all about, our galleries of evidence, and we would love for you to sign our guest book!

#28 Vampchick21

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Posted 04 April 2008 - 08:56 AM

I used your own words Julie. You're the one in the post I was replying to that used the term "professional". I added amature simply because let's face it, there is no university course in paranormal investigation, there is no Sector Council, there is no pay scale, compensation package or Industry Best Practices.

I mean amature in the sense that the majority of Olympic athletes are called amature. Not the negative sense of amature.

And I have not now nor ever suggested that you join under the TAPS umbrella. A lot of groups who share their point of view are not part of that umbrella for whatever reasons they have. It makes no difference to me if someone is under an umbrella or not.

As far as a trend or fad, let me point out that paranormal and spiritualism has come and gone as a 'fad' several times over history, as everyone knows. Be thankful that those jumping on the wagon at this stage are at least jumping onto a wagon driven by a group who, prior to the tv show, have been investigating for a goodly amount of time, have their heads firmly on their shoulders, don't scream demon at every turn, don't present dust orbs as solid evidence, don't write rambling books about invisible masters located in the mountains of Tibet, don't conduct fraudulent seances, and any number of other questionable activities that we are all knowledgeable about over the course of the history of paranormal investigation and spiritualistic beliefs.

As for the drama, again, that's tv for you. Makes little to no sense whatsoever to complain about production decisions regarding a television show. I'm none to fond of production decisions surrounding several history and archeological shows I enjoy, but I'm more than capable of pushing past that and allow myself the luxury of enjoying the programs.


As for how they determine haunting or not, well, I understand they have a live radio show. Feel free to call in and call them on that. I can't answer any more than the guesses I have repeatedly stated in my posts here.

Edited by Vampchick21, 04 April 2008 - 08:58 AM.

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#29 AbbeyGal

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Posted 04 April 2008 - 08:59 AM

The last show it showed how long the investion was 8 hours in Trinway Ohio, they not only heard the stories, but did the research as well, and yes it was their first visit there, but how can they base if it is haunted on a one time investigation or conclude if it's a residual haunting...that's the point I'm trying to make?


It's unrealistic to make the assessment that a place isn't haunted after one visit unless they could debunk all of the commonly reported phenomena. I work weekends in a haunted house, where I'm there for anywhere from 4 to 16 hours at a time. I've gone for months without having a single experience there. Then there are other times when I've had 6 different instances of being poked, hearing disembodied voices, and seeing apparitions and objects moving by themselves just in one night. If T.A.P.S. ever came to investigate, I'm sure that they wouldn't get a shred of evidence because the proper Victorian lady ghosts there would be so offended by their demeanor that they would stay clear of them. However, that wouldn't make the place any less haunted.

Debunking a haunting by showing that historical records contradict the folklore is problematic, too. Folklore is fluid and tends to shift and change over the years as people get different stories confused. T.A.P.S. debunked the story at Prospect Place that Constance Cox, a young daughter of the owners, was stumbling around in a feverish stupor, fell off the front balcony and died. It's great that they took the time to look into that. Does that definitively mean that no dead girl was ever kept in the basement over winter while they were waiting for the ground to thaw enough to bury her, though? Not necessarily. When I first visited there, I was told that it was a housekeeper's daughter who died, and that she fell off the balcony by the isolated sick room back in the servant's quarters part of the house. That version of the story actually makes more sense, considering that the only way to get to the sickroom is through the balcony.

I will give them credit that they seem to be backing away more from asserting that a place isn't haunted. Unlike the first season or two, they are much better about saying that they didn't find anything, not that the place wasn't haunted.

Don't get the impression that just because T.A.P.S. isn't perfect that I don't respect them as investigators or enjoy their show for what it is. I wouldn't bother watching it at all if I thought it was hooey. And yeah, I do know that it's just a tv show. But I agree with Juliet that they are probably the biggest role models to people just starting in paranormal investigation. Entertainment or not, they do need to keep in mind that how they present things does influence quite a lot of people.

#30 GPPI_JMe

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Posted 04 April 2008 - 04:40 PM

As far as basing a judgment call on whether a place is haunted on one 8 hour investigation, once again we are looking past production.. There laptop isn't sitting at a table, waiting for them to return days later with the reveal information, since the moment they quit investigating.. They have already spoken to the owner, client, etc. on what has happened during the investigation, before it's filmed. But, they still have to film it, to add closure to the show.

And please, correct me if I'm wrong, but on numerous occasions the client asks, "Based on what you gathered in your investigation, do you consider this place to be haunted?" (or many variations of the above statement) They, and you can question Jason himself about this, never say a place is not haunted. They explain that based on what they've gathered during there time there, they have no evidence to back up the claims that the place is haunted. They also go on to explain, on many occasions that were filmed (and probably most that aren't, as well) that hauntings don't work on command. You can't just flip and switch to turn the haunt on - which could explain why they were not able to gather any evidence to support the claims made before their arrival.
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