31 replies to this topic

[freyjasdottir]

The stem cell research the Catholic church is against is embroynic stem cells harvested from aborted fetuses, if they were working with people's own stems cells which does work and even better at that then it would not be a problem. Contraception in the form of the birth control pill and other such devices does not stop conception it stops implentation which in the eyes of the church is abortion which is the willful killing of another which is murder they are also against it because you are attempting to take away God's control of your life. This from a former Catholic who still believes that what they aim for is honorable just does not match my worldview.

[Vampchick21]

secretsign, on Mar 12 2008, 08:43 AM, said:

being a child of God and the trintiy lives in me. He have giving me an inner man that is on my case if I do any thing that is sinful. If I can't do something with the confident conviction it is simple don't do it. If it a sumbling block to my brother don't do it. So no I don't need a modren day list updated by man to tell me It is a sin to shoot some on the hwy.
Stem cell, abortions,preventing. I'm sure there is bible for it.

Ah, but the whole thing is, the Vatican and it's lists and everything apply in the end only to Catholics. If you aren't a Catholic, what they say should be nothing more than interesting reading, if that. This is how the Catholic Church has always been, those who didn't like it and/or didn't agree with it ended up forming the various Protestant faiths and other Christian denominations, or leaving Christianity altogether for another faith or becoming Agnostic or Atheists.

So, being a former Catholic, I find it interesting, it affects members of my family (since they are all still Catholic) but has no bearing whatsoever on me and my life, spiritual and secular, nor does it on anyone else who is not Catholic.

[secretsign]

You are so right Vamp.

[aloha_spirit]

Sorry if my remarks seemed a little snippity, secretsign. I hope you know I Jesus is in charge. I just see it as the leaders of each sect acting as a proxy. Many people pray and come up with different answers. By having a designated spokesperson, the Church can limit / control the confusion. If everyone was honest, then there wouldn't need to be spokesperson. Besides, if you don't agree with what one leader says, find a different group or start your own!

[secretsign]

aloha,I'm. sorry, I didn't think that at all. I posted my respones for ppl who don't know, in hopes they'll have some food for thought. this whole topic has been food for thought for me. It has shown me the reason ppl think the way they do and why so many have chosen different paths to follow.
I don't fully understand alot with different religions so everything I read I have to remember that is another point of veiw. I just hope that I don't come off as harsh . I know reading posts isn't like hearing someone talk and things get lost in translation so to say.

[axlfoley]

I think it's great the Catholic church has done this. I don't know if the other religions have come out with their own list also but I think it's appropriate the Catholic church lead the way being the largest in the world. Also, to me it shows that at least people can't say the Church is mum and out of touch (people will say than anyway regardless, right?)
the stemcells and abortion issues will always be controversial but I agree with destroying the environment being a sin.

We're all going on a Green kick. I'm glad the Church has deemed it sinful to pollute the earth. God made the planet so it should be a sin for anyone to destroy (through pollution etc.) what God has created. Politicians pass laws making sure we don't pollute but how many listen? By making it a sin maybe it will appeal to something deeper in us like our conscience.

I'd like to write some more but I have to get to class...anyway, just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents in this discussion...

[Romie]

Thanks for your 2cents worth Axlfoley, you made a very good point. and I do respect that. and I agree.

[Bluemooncat]

axlfoley, on Mar 13 2008, 10:06 AM, said:

We're all going on a Green kick. I'm glad the Church has deemed it sinful to pollute the earth. God made the planet so it should be a sin for anyone to destroy (through pollution etc.) what God has created. Politicians pass laws making sure we don't pollute but how many listen? By making it a sin maybe it will appeal to something deeper in us like our conscience.

I'm so glad you pointed this out. I think it is a good thing to approch the idea of polluting the earth as a "sin".

I'm not Christian myself (I know I say that a lot on here, but it's for the benifit of people who don't know me. ) I do think anything that gets diffrent people of diffrent backgrounds and beliefs to agree that pollution as bad is very, very good thing.
Isn't there a quote from the Bible about how God gave the care of the Earth into the hands of man? I know that for centuries people have used the Bible and their belief as an excuse for useing the Earth . . .wait that doesn't really sound right and is not quite what I am trying to say so I'll got at if from antoher direction.

It is a very Western idea that the Earth belongs to man and that the Earth is for the use of man and that somehow the idea that the Earth needed to be subduded (ack, sp?) and tamed somehow became part of that idea. That thinking allowed for the what has been called the "rape" of the Earth by our industrialised civilization.

It is a good thing that the idea of caring for and protecting the Earth while still sustaining ourselves can now be moved from a political arena to a spiritual one. It does not matter if you believe that the Earth is a living being personified by a Goddess figure or if you believe that God made the Earth and gave it over to the keeping of man. What matters is that we take care of the planet and perhaps this will help change peoples perceptions of what being "Green" can mean.

I sincerly hope it does.

Edited by Bluemooncat, 14 March 2008 - 12:11 AM.

[Axman]

Bluemooncat, on Mar 14 2008, 12:07 AM, said:

Isn't there a quote from the Bible about how God gave the care of the Earth into the hands of man?

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." Gen 1:26 (KJV)

This is the verse you speak of but most people don't know that when Adam and Eve were banished from Eden they were to become servants of the earth by working it...

"And to Adam he said, Because you gave ear to the voice of your wife and took of the fruit of the tree which I said you were not to take, the earth is cursed on your account; in pain you will get your food from it all your life. Thorns and waste plants will come up, and the plants of the field will be your food; With the hard work of your hands you will get your bread till you go back to the earth from which you were taken: for dust you are and to the dust you will go back." Gen 3:17-19 (BBE)

"So the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to be a worker on the earth from which he was taken." Gen 3:23 (BBE)

Edited by Axman, 14 March 2008 - 08:57 PM.

[aloha_spirit]

Axman, the term my sect uses (A LOT) is stewardship. In a nutshell, this means that we don't own anything - everything really belongs to God and we just act as stewards. In the end, we have to account for how we used them.

Our Scriptures also say that the earth was made for man. Everything is for our benefit and use. However, since we are only stewards, we cannot take more than what the earth can recover from. In practical terms, it means we can log, but must plant seedlings. We can hunt, but not to the point of driving species to extinction. We can have families, but they shouldn't be so large we have to destroy ecosystems.

[Axman]

I like to think of the verses I quoted meaning we are to work hard for everything we have as nothing is given to us freely. I am also reminded of this quote, "The Lord helps those who help themselves."--Benjamin Franklin

[greenman]

My main problem is this is that there is no differentiation as mentioned above between medical research using lines that don't come from embryos or aborted infants and those that don't.

I also have an issue with an institution like the Vatican which has a ton of wealth in it's vaults griping about rich give to poor. Pot meet kettle.

This doesn't mean I'm against the Catholic faith, I just think there is too much disparity between what the Vatican preaches and what it does.

[Laurie Ann]

Axman, on Mar 15 2008, 11:02 AM, said:

I like to think of the verses I quoted meaning we are to work hard for everything we have as nothing is given to us freely. I am also reminded of this quote, "The Lord helps those who help themselves."--Benjamin Franklin

~Axman, that's the same quote I tell everyone of my family & friends when they start to feeling sorry for themselves because they want everything handed to them...thinking that praying is like "3-wishes" from a genie.

[Axman]

Laurie, unfortunately I have family who is like that too. If Adam and Eve hadn't eaten that forbidden fruit from the tree of life, then we could have had life easy! But, we work and I really don't mind working. I also don't take things for granted either.

[Laurie Ann]

~I agree with you totally. It reminds me of a saying...if Gods own children didn't listen to Him, what makes you think your children are going to listen to you.