71 replies to this topic

[hippityhoohaa]

Thanks for your informative post CaveRat, and I agree with everything you've said.

There's so much we don't know, and it is quite possible that paranormal phenomena does exist, but almost certainly not in the manner that we're told by the paranormal community. For example, let's say that a psychic is able to tell me something about myself that couldn't be put down to chance. That is something that needs to be investigated, it's something unknown. As you would know, what most people don't understand is that which can't be explained isn't necessarily "supernatural". It's simply something that can't be explained.

Odd shapes appearing in photographs tells us that there's something we don't know about that needs to be investigated, it doesn't tell us that those odd shapes are definitely ghosts. Crop circles of magnificent formations that couldn't possibly be man made doesn't tell us that aliens created them, it tells us that there are crop circles that can't be man made, and we need to investigate what caused that.

Too often I find in the paranormal community that people will come up with great explanations for what science cannot explain without letting proper investigation take its course. I'm sure you could appreciate where I'm coming from with this.

I'm absolutely open to the possibiltiy of ESP and all that, however any explanation behind it without evidence is just ridiculous. It's this fundamental logic that I fear most paranormal enthusiasts don't quite understand. No one is saying that odd stuff doesn't happen, we're just saying that we don't know what that odd stuff is, and speculating about what it is is where the problem lies.

Those are some interesting suggestions you've given about setting up the experiment in pre-determined, controlled manner, and that's something I'd work out with the person at the time (for now).

And if you can show me some advanced science outside of the mainstream that can do the supposedly "impossible", not only will you have my money, but you will have my deepest curiosity!

Edited by hippityhoohaa, 05 April 2009 - 10:00 AM.

[mooboo]

I can tell you something about yourself right here.You are rather unenlightened,and i dont
say it to insult you,but its rather obvious.

Whos right is it to say what is "paranormal",and what is not.Maybe there is no paranormal,but some people
are born with any given number of forms of "abilites",but its like freckles,or green eyes.
Not everyone has it .Maybe its a genetic malfunction,as green eyes are a genetic mutation you know.

Why does only Heidi Klum have that body? Why isnt every woman born to look like her ?
uh huh...
*head bangs for a sec to In My Time of Dying*

Not all of us can close our eyes and see a second plane of existance and what hangs out there,but i can.But i cannot read minds or tell the future in absolute terms or bend spoons.
But i have dreams that absolutely tell me things.
And what i see is not up to me,nor are they ghosts in my opinion.

How many times are our lives in precarious positions,and something,somehow,saves you...?
Nothing is arbitrary.
I mean can you see your red blood cells except under a microscope ?
If someone told 12th century man he had red blood cells,would he beleive them?
The technology for that wouldnt come into being for about 5 centuries.

So maybe we just dont have the right equipment yet....
Just because you dont see it,doesnt mean its not there.
But feel free to be adamantly skeptical,tis your right.

cheers
*head bangs sum more*
M

[dennisoc]

What makes someone on a forum such as this believe that a world class medium would take the time to "prove themselves" to you.

Someone who can only work a few hours a day because of the energy drain communicating with the dead takes. Someone who has folks from all over the world waiting to have a session with them. Someone who has dealt with skeptics and cynics even in their own famililies all of their lives.

Someone who is thanked deeply after every session by every client for the peace of mind, closure, and spiritual enlightenment that they bring.

Gee ....I guess you and the Amazing Randy (whose offer is not real by the way) are right. Noone has come after your "big bucks" so that is incontrovertible proof that there is no such thing as a medium.

Believe me...(OK bad choice of words)...maybe they have better things to do.

[CrystalEyz]

OHHH The irony. How does one prove the paranormal to someone who has no clue what it is, or what to expect? I talk to dead people, I am a psychic but I am not out for money nor do I have to prove it to anyone.

[Spookydog]

I don't think I have "powers" per se, but I am much more "sensitive" or open to paranormal phenomena. In other words, I can't make things happen; they just happen to me at seemingly random moments. Although you do come off as a bit arrogant, here's my best proof. I know you'll think I made it up, but it's the best proof I got.

Read the last big paragraph of post #12 through post #22.

http://www.ghostvill...y...=26551&st=0

Scroll down to about the middle of this page. My grandpa's name is Cecil DeWayne Smith, and he died on the 23rd of March this year.

http://www.sloco.net...s/2009Obits.htm

I doubt this'll change anything, but maybe it'll get you thinking or at least be entertaining.

Edited by Spookydog, 14 July 2009 - 03:27 PM.

[PHANTOM MONK]

I love folks that express their opinions in absolutes. If they said "maybe" or "could be", it is easier to polk holes in their arguments because they are so dogmatic, kinda like what I just said for example. I guess it's the part of me that loves to argue, like pocking fun at members of the Flat Earth Society showing them NASA photos of the earth from the moon. I love to hear what they have to say, regardless of the content, as long as it's not abusive or verbally offensive, then I'll just walk off. Discuss is one thing, cussing is another. I think it isn't my sole role in life to change somebody's mind, which might be counter to mine, but tto debate, sharpens the mind, keeps one alert, and one can often learn from someone with the opposite point of view.

[CaveRat2]

It never ceases to amaze me how the psychic side will always take the "I don't have to prove it to anyone" approach, yet they want to be accepted by society for their abilities. Yes I am throwing down the gauntlet here, prove yourself!

The scientific sied tests and measures to arrive at its conclusions, but it doesn't end there. There is the argument that maybe the instruments used are not correct. So not obnly do we have to verify our methods, but also our instruments are checked and calibrated against known standards. This is to insure they perform as they are intended to under test conditions. Then our results are peer reviewed by others, some trying to find flaws in our methods. It is a system of test and retest. Only that which survives this level of scrutiny is considered valid. And even then someone may come along and repeat the experiment. If they get different results the whole procedure starts over agian.

So why is it so wrong to ask the psychic to prove himself? We demand our instruments prove themselves daily, and do not many psychics pass themselves off as merely an instrument of communication with a spirit? Why is it wrong to ask the same level of confidence in them we ask of our electronic or other instruments? But almost invariably such a comment will lead back to not an answer to the question but a personal attack against me or whoever dare ask such a question. Yet I am not saying I don't believe the psychic, I'm only asking for a demonstration or proof, just as I would ask of one who makes a scientific claim.

[Laurie Ann]

PHANTOM MONK, on Jul 26 2009, 02:46 PM, said:

I love folks that express their opinions in absolutes. If they said "maybe" or "could be", it is easier to polk holes in their arguments because they are so dogmatic, kinda like what I just said for example. I guess it's the part of me that loves to argue, like pocking fun at members of the Flat Earth Society showing them NASA photos of the earth from the moon. I love to hear what they have to say, regardless of the content, as long as it's not abusive or verbally offensive, then I'll just walk off. Discuss is one thing, cussing is another. I think it isn't my sole role in life to change somebody's mind, which might be counter to mine, but tto debate, sharpens the mind, keeps one alert, and one can often learn from someone with the opposite point of view.

Those are the exact words I've been trying to tell everyone too. Although I'm a believer, I still have & always will respect the thoughts and opinions of a skeptic.

[Laurie Ann]

~Caverat, I'm not speaking for others but I believe that those who speak to spirits have been dragged through the mud for centuries that now, they have this huge wall built up. It's not that don't want to prove their abilities, it's just the approach from others that has an influence on their answer to you and others taht look for that god-all-mighty proof. No disrespect towards you what so ever as you aren't and won't be the first to seek answers. I think that no matter what proof a person with abilities has, there will always be holes in it for a skeptic to tear to shreds. It's the same with your "instruments"...I'm sure there are ways that they work great most of the time, but then there's going to be one small "hiccup" in the way they perform and there ya go...out in the garbage it goes.
**This is just my own opinion***

[Ike]

Ask a medium to prove something to you?
I'm a medium and here is my answer,

Why should I waste my time,
To prove something
That cannot be proven,
But cannot be disproven,
To one,
That doubts it?

I have lived my life seeing ghosts and spirits,
As clearly as I see you or me,
Wether it be all in my head or something amazing,
Its just me,
Why do I have to prove myself to skeptic?
Reason, I don't.
Call me crazy but I think I'll continue living the way I have, having fun while discovering and uncovering grand things.

Science is not fact.
Supernatural is not fact.
But neither is fiction.
There is no fact or fiction, its just all in your head.

[loganinkosovo]

CaveRat, on Apr 5 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

Hippityhoohaa, your offer is cheap... Randi will pay a million $$$$ to prove the same thing!! You'll have to do better than that!!!!

A talentless hack, after failing at a mediocre "Magic" career, has set himself up, with no qualifications what so ever. as a "Paranormal Licensing Bureau".

Another talentless hack. after failing at a mediocre "Football" career, has set himself up, with no qualifications what so ever, as a "Psychic".

I really see no difference between these two people.

Both are con-artists.

[OMPRDave]

I've personally met a lot more hack psychics that hack skeptics. I've been unfortunate enough to spend the night with a woman who saw ghosts around every corner, in every closet, and even started petting a ghost "cat" ...needless to say she was a head injury case that needed some type of therapy and had a husband who wanted a TAPS-like career on television and didn't want to work.

I cannot say if any psychic is a fraud, if they all are, or that they all have some gifted ability that I can't fathom. What I can say is I remain skeptical to EVERYTHING, and owe it to myself and anyone I come into contact with in my own pursuit of trying to understand paranormal happenings to not allow myself to be swayed on somebody else's insistence or word.

[PHANTOM MONK]

Laurie Ann, on Jul 27 2009, 02:26 PM, said:

~Caverat, I'm not speaking for others but I believe that those who speak to spirits have been dragged through the mud for centuries that now, they have this huge wall built up. It's not that don't want to prove their abilities, it's just the approach from others that has an influence on their answer to you and others taht look for that god-all-mighty proof. No disrespect towards you what so ever as you aren't and won't be the first to seek answers. I think that no matter what proof a person with abilities has, there will always be holes in it for a skeptic to tear to shreds. It's the same with your "instruments"...I'm sure there are ways that they work great most of the time, but then there's going to be one small "hiccup" in the way they perform and there ya go...out in the garbage it goes.
**This is just my own opinion***

Thanks for your comments. I am assuming the comment was done at a low volume level and not yelled. Darn inflections, you can't really tell how a person is expressing theemselves.

[Laurie Ann]

Umm...no caps here so, no yelling. I don't yell anyways...atleast not on the boards. Who could hear me anyway? lol Besides, it would be wasted energy.

The way I was expressing myself here was in a way to try and help, which is one of my goals here on this planet. Believe me, I'm not an expert at any of this paranormal stuff, but I do have abilities that once I get a better grasp on, I may consider myself one of the lucky ones.

[PHANTOM MONK]

CaveRat, on Jul 27 2009, 09:41 AM, said:

It never ceases to amaze me how the psychic side will always take the "I don't have to prove it to anyone" approach, yet they want to be accepted by society for their abilities. Yes I am throwing down the gauntlet here, prove yourself!

The scientific sied tests and measures to arrive at its conclusions, but it doesn't end there. There is the argument that maybe the instruments used are not correct. So not obnly do we have to verify our methods, but also our instruments are checked and calibrated against known standards. This is to insure they perform as they are intended to under test conditions. Then our results are peer reviewed by others, some trying to find flaws in our methods. It is a system of test and retest. Only that which survives this level of scrutiny is considered valid. And even then someone may come along and repeat the experiment. If they get different results the whole procedure starts over agian.

So why is it so wrong to ask the psychic to prove himself? We demand our instruments prove themselves daily, and do not many psychics pass themselves off as merely an instrument of communication with a spirit? Why is it wrong to ask the same level of confidence in them we ask of our electronic or other instruments? But almost invariably such a comment will lead back to not an answer to the question but a personal attack against me or whoever dare ask such a question. Yet I am not saying I don't believe the psychic, I'm only asking for a demonstration or proof, just as I would ask of one who makes a scientific claim.

I know therefore I am. :Wall:or something like that.

Edited by PHANTOM MONK, 31 July 2009 - 07:26 AM.