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Does Hell exist?


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#31 spooksareus

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 10:37 AM

I get a nervous tic in my right eye now when the subject of "evil, real or not" comes up. A buddy of mine who I consider to be an intelligent and decent human being, insists on (when the question of evil comes up) dismissing it out of hand as being a purely moral issue, and as such, merely an objective personal sort of thingy, that only exists in the mind of whomever has been touched by "it", It being evil (whatever it may be).

He is not alone, many of the people I questioned on this subject were of that mind.
This I found disturbing , which of course it brought me to thoughts of Hollywood (which I always find disturbing) and the movies.

I love movies, and I frequently steal lines from the ones I like best ("It puts the lotion on it's skin..."). My favorite line from the movie 'The Usual Suspects' has the character of Verbal say, "The greatest trick the Devil played, was to convince the world that he doesn't exist". I know it's only a movie, but this struck a deep chord of truth in me (and it gave me the willies).

So has the devil done a fine job of convincing the world he doesn't exist; or does he just not exist?

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#32 petunia4998

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 10:50 AM

Like I said, you are the creator of your world. There is a devil in the sense that people need to believe that their dark actions did not come from them or that they were made to do it. There have always been people who choose the dark side; you have been one of them as have I and everyone in this world. It's part of the cycle of life and learning. I think it is not so much as being convinced that the devil does not exist as choosing the light over the darkness, love over hate, kindness over malice. And these are choices.

It saddens me that Hollywood chooses to glamorize evil and so much money is spent doing that. Of course it has an effect on the viewers. When that's all you see, what are you to think? I often wonder what it would be like if all the movies were like "It's a Wonderful Life" or "Fried Green Tomatoes". Movies that showed love and caring. But that is not to be. We have to find our way around it.
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#33 spooksareus

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:34 AM

That would be nice but what would we watch on Halloween?

Your walking home, minding your own business, in the lovely world that you have created for yourself, happy as a clam and content too, when you have unknowingly crossed the line of sight of a creature who dwells like a troll in the dark.

You've taken little or no notice of said creature, who has meanwhile looked you over and quietly muttered to him/her self "Hmmm, that looks like a good project".

“Project” is the term Dennis Rader "BTK" used in describing his victims...

Edited by spooksareus, 31 October 2006 - 11:35 AM.

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#34 Ayna

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 01:35 PM

That would be nice but what would we watch on Halloween?

Your walking home, minding your own business, in the lovely world that you have created for yourself, happy as a clam and content too, when you have unknowingly crossed the line of sight of a creature who dwells like a troll in the dark.

You've taken little or no notice of said creature, who has meanwhile looked you over and quietly muttered to him/her self "Hmmm, that looks like a good project".

“Project” is the term Dennis Rader "BTK" used in describing his victims...


Right, I´m raising my eyes to heaven here :ghost: and wondering whats going on.
The whole discussion here seems to have lost sight of the fact that we are not made up just of flesh and blood, and that indeed that fact is the most non-important. Whatever, or whoever I am, here in my incarnate state is fated to one day be non-existent. All, ALL that I am is my Centre-Core, my Higher Self, my SOUL. We all, all of us, were created, NONE of us can deny that, as we are all here, discussing this fact. We dont know what created us. Thats a fact which mankind has been speculating on since the time the Neanderthals perhaps started worshipping the heat of the sun. What goes on on other planets, I dont know, but I sure wish I did.
Yes, there is absolute Good, and absolute Bad, total Light and total Darkness. But, the Creator of all is not the Darkness. Why should something evil create a planet which is a wonderful place ? He/She/ It did not. It was the other side of the coin, so to speak, who constantly tries to take away the perfection of the place created. Just look at the rape of the Rain Forests, the slaughter of beautiful animals, the thinning of the Ozone Layer, the melting of the Polar Ice Caps, etc.etc. That is the work of humans whose soul has slipped onto the dark side. That is their choice. But, we all have a choice.

My soul is indestructable, and I am full of love and respect for the marvel of this planet and this universe. I live beyond my human shell, and no human, no demon, nothing can take me away from the total perfection of the All-Beingness.
A life without festivity is like a long journey without rest. ( Demokrit. 460-370 BC ) God didn´t give me a brain just to fill the space between my ears. ( Ayna- ca. 1992 !!! ) I am the seed of all things that are ( Krishna )

#35 spooksareus

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 03:44 PM

I don't think any of us have lost sight of that fact Anya, I was merely stating that bad things do indeed happen to good folks and for no other reason than that, that is the way it happens sometimes. This was in response to the post previous.

Also, I believe that the darkness may scar the perfection of our souls while we are of flesh and blood and create a sickness of the spirit.

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#36 singer

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 08:17 PM

Here's a thought: If God originates in the absolute and created this plane of existance, and everything is God including that which is not God and everything inbetween, then God is everything that is good and everything that is evil and everything inbetween including everything that is nothing.

In fact - it is my belief that God created all of this and that and everything inbetween and gave everything the ability to choose and create so that God could experience God. :devil: :wow:

Edited by singer, 31 October 2006 - 08:19 PM.

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#37 JimDe

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:22 PM

I don’t believe the legend of ‘Satan’ has ever been proven.
… Nor has the existence of any other supernatural spiritual being, good or bad.
The legends of Hell and Satan are in my mind just that: legends.
The Almighty Creator is my choice to believe or not …if I do,
then logically so might the other guy exist, whether I choose to accept it or not.
(… legend has it, that if you talk about him, he might show up).

Hell on earth, I don’t buy it; hey I live in a nice neighborhood, its beautiful here. Sometimes it looks pretty bad on the news, but what I see are the malicious maniacal intentions of man towards his fellow human beings.
Some may choose to call that the work of Satan, I really do think ‘The Satan’ could do a much better job to cause evil and suffering among the innocents. Don’t you?
But, it hasn’t happened, Hitler was the epitome of an evil human being. And he was stopped, by other human beings. I think it might be more difficult to destroy the pure evil that is the legend of Satan.

The possibility of an evil supernatural being does concern me though…
“A predatory natural spirit with the malicious intent to cause harm”
Proven or not, I see that as a potential problem.
I hope the traps can handle the weight…

… Is it a state of mind?
Our minds and/or our intelligence may carry over into the next existence if there is one.
If your mind can’t handle it here, what do think is going to happen there? Peace and happiness or more torment and suffering?
Humans most likely cannot stop a superior spiritual being whose sole purpose is to kick your __ for all eternity. So save your energy, for when it counts.
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#38 Ayna

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 10:10 AM

I don't think any of us have lost sight of that fact Anya, I was merely stating that bad things do indeed happen to good folks and for no other reason than that, that is the way it happens sometimes. This was in response to the post previous.

Also, I believe that the darkness may scar the perfection of our souls while we are of flesh and blood and create a sickness of the spirit.


Sorry Spooks, I was not intending to ignore anyone´s intelligence here. I do apologise if I have done that. Indeed the better we can debate on any topic the better we learn and grow.

Bad things happen all the time to good people, my point was only to demonstrate that the goodness of these people never is lost. Thats not much help to loved ones who have to mourn a family member who has lost their present existence because some miserable sick person has taken the spark of their bodily life-force away. ( In short, murdered).

And now we are getting back to another subject indeed. There are souls who are incarnated on this earth who are not touchable for normality. They are so infested with darkness and so completely beyond the touch of a human" reasoning. These wreak havoc, they are the Hitlers, the Phol Phots ( did I spell that right ?) the Lenins, the Neros, etc etc etc. But, they wont and dont get away with the dreadful things they did. I would not want to be in their shoes. How many dreadful re-incarnations will they need to ever get back onto a half way normal level. ?

I think they will have to go through Hell after Hell, they will pay back what they did to others. And darn it, thats a lot of Hell.

respectfully
A life without festivity is like a long journey without rest. ( Demokrit. 460-370 BC ) God didn´t give me a brain just to fill the space between my ears. ( Ayna- ca. 1992 !!! ) I am the seed of all things that are ( Krishna )

#39 melodrama

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 10:40 AM

i dont think you can describe something of infinate nature in finite terms.

#40 spooksareus

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 11:13 AM

And now we are getting back to another subject indeed. There are souls who are incarnated on this earth who are not touchable for normality. They are so infested with darkness and so completely beyond the touch of a human" reasoning. These wreak havoc, they are the Hitlers, the Phol Phots ( did I spell that right ?) the Lenins, the Neros, etc etc etc. But, they wont and dont get away with the dreadful things they did. I would not want to be in their shoes. How many dreadful re-incarnations will they need to ever get back onto a half way normal level. ?

I think they will have to go through Hell after Hell, they will pay back what they did to others. And darn it, thats a lot of Hell.

respectfully


Exactly so Anya, they are so infested with the darkness that the kernal of light that may still reside within them seem's eternally lost in fog.

But as a great teacher once said, "faith the size of a mustard seed will do", and so the hope that the tiny light within, will out...



Here's a thought: If God originates in the absolute and created this plane of existance, and everything is God including that which is not God and everything inbetween, then God is everything that is good and everything that is evil and everything inbetween including everything that is nothing.

In fact - it is my belief that God created all of this and that and everything inbetween and gave everything the ability to choose and create so that God could experience God. :wow: :wow:


God does seem to enjoy scratching all itches by every employable means... :)

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#41 singer

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 11:31 AM

i dont think you can describe something of infinate nature in finite terms.


But it is fun and compelling :)
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#42 singer

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 11:59 AM

Jmde: Hell on earth, I don’t buy it; hey I live in a nice neighborhood, its beautiful here.

Singer: I live in a beautiful place too, yet, across the way from me in the same beautiful place is a person who is experiencing a personal hell. She is suffering and feels quite stuck. Another in her exact place would appreciate what they have and where they are, but she doesn't see it that way.

Jmde: Sometimes it looks pretty bad on the news, but what I see are the malicious maniacal intentions of man towards his fellow human beings.

Singer: I believe that the news is entertainment to some. When 9/11 happened, I was unaware and unaffected until person after person (I am in California on the opposite coast) was suffering and crying and angry for the people they didn't personally know who were hurt and killed in that tragic event. If they would put a fraction of that concern toward the needs of people (ie: battered women, neglected children, angry teens, etc.) in thier own neighborhoods it would make a noticable positve effect. We can make a positive difference.

JmdeSome may choose to call that the work of Satan, I really do think ‘The Satan’ could do a much better job to cause evil and suffering among the innocents. Don’t you?

Singer: I believe that people need to personify a thing such as "Satan". Instead of a being, I like to think of it as an intelligent creative force.

Jmde: But, it hasn’t happened, Hitler was the epitome of an evil human being. And he was stopped, by other human beings. I think it might be more difficult to destroy the pure evil that is the legend of Satan.

Singer: It won't happen as long as we find such negative distructive people and legends entertaining.

Jmde: The possibility of an evil supernatural being does concern me though…
“A predatory natural spirit with the malicious intent to cause harm”

Singer: It can't hurt you if you don't give it power. The most effective way to distroy evil intent is amusement. To laugh. A light heart cannot entertain darkness. Darkness is not attracted to Light.

Jmde: Proven or not, I see that as a potential problem.

Singer: It is a problem for the person who is affected. It is a problem for those who try to help the affected person when they do not desire help and have not asked for it.

Jmde: Humans most likely cannot stop a superior spiritual being whose sole purpose is to kick your __ for all eternity. So save your energy, for when it counts.

Singer: Yes you can. I had a destructive entitiy bugging me once. I noticed it grew larger when I reacted to it with fear or anger. I called my mother who brought over a bottle of bubbles. Together we blew bubbles at it and told it how much we loved it. IT FLED!!! :)
SingerJoy is a way a traveling for the singer of songs."

#43 JimDe

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 02:49 AM

Singer: I like it.
… that part about the bubbles is classic, you should keep that and use it in a song, you could call it something like …my garden bubble, or, bubbles from the garden of good and evil.

If they were the special magic bubbles garden brand, the kind that singe fur and burn flesh and only grow in the garden of good and evil? If so, put me down for some, because I’m with that.

Why did you let him go?
You could have held him with a bubble chain, and sang Christmas songs to him while mom was feeding him cookies, that would really __ __ off. He’d have to leave you alone after that, or, we can torture him a little bit.


WTC:
The wife was working just a few blocks away at the time. How do you think I feel about that? Watching those people jump to their own certain death was incredibly sad BAD_WORD.
Those murdering BAD_WORDs. My own mother couldn’t stop me from torturing those monkeys in many unofficial and unapproved ways ...sometimes anger can get the better of a person. WTC: That gets my anger going real good.

Pardon the choice words,

...
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#44 JimDe

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 03:04 AM

I’m sorry, I left off a part, it goes like this…

Why did you let him go?
You could have held him with a bubble chain, and sang Christmas songs to him while mom was feeding him cookies, that would really __ __ off. He’d have to leave you alone after that, or, we can torture him a little bit and make him sing along with you.

I said I was sorry.

...
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#45 singer

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 09:57 AM

I’m sorry, I left off a part, it goes like this…

Why did you let him go?
You could have held him with a bubble chain, and sang Christmas songs to him while mom was feeding him cookies, that would really __ __ off. He’d have to leave you alone after that, or, we can torture him a little bit and make him sing along with you.

I said I was sorry.

...

I must have missed something. Why are you sorry?
SingerJoy is a way a traveling for the singer of songs."




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