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Soul Salvation


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#16 bunnifer229

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:16 AM

Good question....


In my opinion (which is neither right or wrong) It all depends on your faith. You can commit a sin but if you ask for forgiveness you will not lose your slavation. (Although some sins will have to be asnswered for - murder). No one is without sin so like Aloha said, we need to repent everyday, or ask forgiveness of the sins we have committed.

AMEN......thats exactly correct we will never be perfect but our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ died for all the sins we will ever commit ......God is omnipitent .....He knows all and leaves room for our Human errors, but we mucst stay close to him and everyday ask and repent for our sins that we commit and try to sin less in our lives......like learning by mistakes.
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#17 Vampchick21

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:44 AM

If and when you are cleansed by the blood of Jesus this is called your salvation.(Repentance, acceptance that Jesus is the son of God, cleansing you of your sins. Do you believe you can lose your salvation? :huh:

Hmmm...

I'll answer this from the point of view of my Catholic upbringing.

I was taught that God pretty much forgave anything, so long as you repented of what you did and somehow make reparation, whether or not you went to confession.

It states in the bible you are to confess your sins to none other than God not men or priests

Give me the EXACT quote, chapter, verse, in full, including what came before it and after it.

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#18 petunia4998

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 01:13 PM

Bunnifer, you are so adamant that there is a hell that I am sure for you there is one. And I don't mean that nastily, it is just that you are so sure there is one, and for you, it is.

I don't quite know what I think about Satan, but if there is one, he too will go back to god one day. Like I said, noone is ever lost forever.

I don't understand why you prefer to think that if one loses salvation, it is forever. Or did I misunderstand you?

I don't believe in the bible and I don't believe those are god's words. And I don't believe Jesus died for anybody's sins besides his own because according to the divine law of karma, that can't be done.
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#19 grendel

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:03 AM

I don't believe in the bible and I don't believe those are god's words. And I don't believe Jesus died for anybody's sins besides his own because according to the divine law of karma, that can't be done.

Just a question. Umm... if it is a DIVINE law of karma than who is your divinity? Have you always believed it such, if not then when did you switch?
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#20 Sammy_Da_Cat

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 09:21 AM

I don't believe in the bible and I don't believe those are god's words.  And I don't believe Jesus died for anybody's sins besides his own because according to the divine law of karma, that can't be done.

Not correct at all. All laws of Karma the lower laws, the middle laws, and the higher laws all deal with the release of suffering for all beings, Without exception! The lower laws of Karma, the laws concerning rebirth (physical and mental) give a simple explanation and practices for defeating Karma through good deeds and understanding of forces that control actions. When an action is produced physically or mentally Bad Karma or Good Karma (merit) is produced. This begins to turn cause and effect in the person life. If you gained bad Karma bad things will happen (not necessarily) if you gain Good Karma (merit) good things will happen (not necessarily). The simplest of laws involving Karma. In the area of this law even breathing can be the cause of bad or good Karma. But there is a higher law or purpose to Karma. A law that deals with reincarnation and the release of suffering, or sins, of all beings.

The beginning practices in dealing with Karma are a bit selfish. They deal with gaining Nirvana or Heaven for the practitioner. This in itself is a great goal for anyone but are concentrated on rebirth rather then reincarnation. When the practitioner transcends the ego and works to resolve the bad Karma of all beings then total awakening or reincarnation can occur. This is seen in the path of both Jesus and the Buddha's. Their undeniable love for all beings, their connection to all things, the release of their Karmic debt an the debt of others. Their unselfish giving, compassion, and understanding is what enabled them to become what they are and cure the suffering of all beings.

You still have to find your connection to what you are learning, why you are learning, and who you are learning the teachings for Petunia. Without a connection the practice is empty and powerless.

Why are you on the path? Is it to gain the treasures of Heaven/Nirvana? To gain power? To sit in High Office with the gods? Are you the only being that deserves to be released from suffering?

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#21 petunia4998

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:07 PM

Grendel, I was raised a catholic, but even as a child I was not a good believer. I knew at that time that it didn't work for me. I got into metaphysics about 25 years ago. And my divinity is the mother/father god/

Sammy, how can you say that Jesus and the buddha cure the sufferings of others when people are still suffering? I believe that they showed people how to change their directions so as to put an end to their suffering, but it is up to the person him/herself. No one can do it for you. Or are you saying that someone can do your suffering for you? If that's the case, how are you going to learn your lessons?

I am on the path because I want to get back to god, it's as simple as that. And how can I believe that I am the only one who deserves to be released from suffering when I have to sit here and endure your harangues? Well, it takes all kinds, so it's just another one of those things. Let me tell you, there are a lot of worse things to endure and god loves you just as much as god loves me. There are as many paths back to god as there are people. And they're all beautiful.
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#22 petunia4998

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:42 PM

And here's another question Sammy, if i indeed thought that I was the only being who deserved to be released from suffering, would you have a problem with that, and why?
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#23 Sammy_Da_Cat

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 10:50 PM

How can I say Jesus and Buddha cure the suffering of others when people are still suffering? By typing it in the reply box, by singing it in the street, by acting like a mad hatter swinging from the lamppost whispering “May all people rejoice this day for the God's have given us our freedom. They have left us a great legacy that cures the suffering of all beings”. Its all about the connection's Petunia. I have no problem with with anyone believing that they are the only one that deserves freedom from suffering Petunia. If you could see the Cheshire cat grin on my face you would understand that. The problem I am having is with your mixing of Karma and other religious symbols. Some of the things you say do not fit the picture. Its like some one trying to put together a picture out of half the contents of 12 puzzles.Karma, Dear old Karma. You have stated that it is the balancer of all things, it is the device of judgment at the time of death (which totally contradicts your belief that we have a choice on what life we will have in rebirth), and now it is a divine law. If it is a divine law Petunia, then all beings are judged by it, even the mother/father god/. Which would means “yes” gods can fall from the heavens to the very depths of hell (Believe it or not the Buddha have already stated this is when explaining the laws of Karma). Connections Petunia if you believe in an all powerful god then you cannot believe in Karma. Taking different pieces of religion and trying to put them together to make an understandable concept does not work. Pick up a book or ask your teachers about all the laws of Karma or leave Karma be. Its time to come clean what religion are you studying?

#24 grendel

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 01:12 AM

Well Said Sammy. :) My point exactly.
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#25 hawkerdriver

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 10:25 AM

The problem I am having is with your mixing of Karma and other religious symbols.


But Sammy, why can't one take different philosophies from different belief systems and come up with their own. I think it's the 'ideas' behind some of these philosophies that are attractive. SHoot! Look at all the religions that have splintered off of Catholicism-for ALL Christian religions can trace their roots back to the Holy Roman Catholic Church-that have taken certain ideas but left some of the practices.

Are you not happy with the idea that Petunia refers to Karma but does not really know what it means in it's true sense? That she's taken a phrase and made into what SHE believes it means?
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#26 MoonChild

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 10:43 AM

Whatever philosophy you believe, whatever meaning you give to it, Karma in actuality means ACTION. What we refer in spirituality as Karma is nothing but the Karmic bondage, whch is nothing but the force generated by our actions. There is no good or bad actions, but just ACTIONS. So, it is either positive or negative, but whatever be it, you are bound by the Karmic Bondage. Escaping Karmic Bondage is by severing the Bondages, and this can be only achieved doing selfless actions.

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#27 Alsie R.

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 03:23 PM

If and when you are cleansed by the blood of Jesus this is called your salvation.(Repentance, acceptance that Jesus is the son of God, cleansing you of your sins. Do you believe you can lose your salvation? :huh:

Hmmm...

I'll answer this from the point of view of my Catholic upbringing.

I was taught that God pretty much forgave anything, so long as you repented of what you did and somehow make reparation, whether or not you went to confession.

It states in the bible you are to confess your sins to none other than God not men or priests

it does?

ever since i was born, i was taught that in the catholic church (which i am), you confess your sins to a priest, who is allowed by god to forgive sins in his name. i've never heard of that part of the bible. which part?
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#28 aloha_spirit

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 03:50 PM

But Sammy, why can't one take different philosophies from different belief systems and come up with their own. I think it's the 'ideas' behind some of these philosophies that are attractive. SHoot! Look at all the religions that have splintered off of Catholicism-for ALL Christian religions can trace their roots back to the Holy Roman Catholic Church-that have taken certain ideas but left some of the practices.

I hate to break it to you, but none of the Restoration Churches trace their roots back to Catholicism. We are Christian, so there is a certain overlap, but the founder of the Restoration Movement was never baptized in any other Church. He wasn't trying to Reform some existing denomination; instead he restored all things through heavenly visits starting in 1820. Since that singular event, over 100 groups have splintered off (much as Protestants and Reformers broke off from Catholicism).

It is common for individuals to merge several belief systems into their own person faith. In Hawaii, it is custom to pronounce a blessing in the native tongue before addressing any assembly -- be it a religious, social, or cultural gathering. People of all faiths grow ti leafs - mostly as protection from malicious spirits.

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#29 hawkerdriver

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:07 PM

but the founder of the Restoration Movement was never baptized in any other Church. He wasn't trying to Reform some existing denomination; instead he restored all things through heavenly visits starting in 1820.


That's if you believe in that guy, which I don't. I personally think he was a dirty old man who wanted to get laid every night by a different woman! I also think either he was doing drugs or he suffered from a severe psychosis. And I find it hystreical that he found a bunch of followers who are willing to take his word over Christ's- even with Christ warning us about false prophets.



All Christians churchs are the result of splintering from the Roman communion. First it was the Eastern Orthodox who splintered because the did not believe that the Holy Trinity were one in the same. Next came the Prostestants from which Mormonism splintered.
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#30 aloha_spirit

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:12 PM

  ever since i was born, i was taught that in the catholic church (which i am), you confess your sins to a priest, who is allowed by god to forgive sins in his name. i've never heard of that part of the bible. which part?


Confession:
It is a duty of all persons to confess all sins to the Lord and, when necessary, to the person or persons sinned against.  Sins against the public must be publicly confessed (D&C 42:88-93).  Other items may be confessed to a church official (bishop), or in many cases to the Lord alone.  Confession to a church official (in most cases the bishop) is necessary whenever one's transgression is of a nature for which the Church might impose loss of membership or other disciplinary action.  The bishop cannot and does not forgive sin, but he may judge the matter and waive the penalty that the Church might impose against the person.  The repentant sinner must still make confession and obtain forgiveness of the Lord.

Confession is a condition of forgiveness.  The Lord has said that true repentance is always accompanied by confession (D&C 58:43; 64:7).  Confession was clearly a requirement of forgiveness under the Law of Moses (Lev 5:5; 26:40; Num 5:7; Josh 7:19; Ezra 10:11).  John the Baptist baptized those who repented and confessed their sins (Matt 3:5-6).


Some sins carry disciplinary actions from the Church and it is up to the bishop (or other church official) to determine this punishment. The punishment is meant to humble the sinner and bring him back to Christ.

Sometimes I'll confess "lesser" sins which hold no recommended punishment from the Church to the bishop in order to obtain counsel about how to overcome my weaknesses.

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