20 replies to this topic

[MoonChild]

I beg to differ here CaveRat.

When you said

Quote

If you loose an arm, the nerves that allowed us to feel sensation in that arm are not entirely gone. A part of them remains between the stump & the brain & continues to function.

Now, how can this be true? When a finger is cut off, so does the nerve. The nerve runs from the brain till the end of the finger, and it's functionality is not merely to feel the said finger, but the entire route it runs through. For the same reason, when a finger is cut off, so does the functionality of that nerve with relation to that finger. So the phantom limp phenomenon cannot be satisfactorily explained in this manner.

Now, talking about the spiritual side, it only matter where you see things from. It is a matter of paradigm shift, and a different plane altogether.

[Caniswalensis]

MoonChild, on Nov 10 2009, 12:09 PM, said:

I beg to differ here CaveRat.

When you said

Quote

If you loose an arm, the nerves that allowed us to feel sensation in that arm are not entirely gone. A part of them remains between the stump & the brain & continues to function.

Now, how can this be true? When a finger is cut off, so does the nerve. The nerve runs from the brain till the end of the finger, and it's functionality is not merely to feel the said finger, but the entire route it runs through. For the same reason, when a finger is cut off, so does the functionality of that nerve with relation to that finger. So the phantom limp phenomenon cannot be satisfactorily explained in this manner.

A fair question. Let me see if I can explain it satisfactorily.

This is not a new idea, it is commonly accepted in the medical community. It should be noted though that there are differing opinions on some of the finer points.

The part of the nerve that served the finger is still in the stump, alive & well. The nerve still continues to feel and it has a portion of it that is dedicated to the finger still. For whatever reason, the brain still interprets some of the signals as coming from the finger.

Maybe it will help to think of it as a a telephone cable? We have a cable, with several tephone lines in it. One of the phones I torn out of the wall. The cable is still intact and functioning. Someone that dials the number of the torn out phone might still hear static if the wires where touched together. I do not think this is a perfect analogy, but I think it works.

There is also the idea, pioneered by one of your countrymen, called neuroplasticity. In short, that the brain can sometimes remap the behavior of its neurons. This could help to acount for phantom limb sensatins.

Here are some links:
http://www.britannic...m-limb-syndrome
http://www.webmd.com...antom-limb-pain
http://www.medterms....articlekey=9111


Hope this helps clear up my opinion.

Canis (not Caverat )

[tommyhancock]

unlike ghosts, theres too much evidence to point to nonsupernatural answers to the phantom limb phenomena, im not putting down anyones beliefs at all, but unlike with ghosts where you cant entirely prove or disprove any given case entirely unless a spirit decides to remap the sensations of your amputated hand to your face i personally can not understand this, if it was the spirit why would someone touching your cheek feel like someone was touching your hand? heres a quick quote i found from like 4 seconds of googling:

"The ability to feel sensations and pain in a limb or limbs that no longer exist. Phantom limb syndrome experienced by amputees is generally characterized by nonpainful sensations, such as the perception of movement and reception of external stimuli (e.g., touch, pressure, itch), and by painful sensations, such as the perception of burning, tingling, or shooting pains. The syndrome can be explained by map expansion neuroplasticity, in which the local brain region that once specialized in controlling the function of the amputated limb and that is reflected as a discrete "map" in the cerebral cortex of the brain is taken over by an adjacent brain map such as the face map, thereby expanding the face map. The acquisition of a part of the unused phantom map by the face map results in the perception of sensation in the amputated limb when the face is touched. Treatment of the syndrome may employ pain-relieving medications, coping techniques, nonsurgical treatments (including shock therapy and acupuncture), and implantable treatments, such as deep brain stimulation and spinal cord stimulation. Mirror box therapy has been successful in a small number of patients, primarily those who experienced paralysis of a limb prior to amputation and thus suffer from a condition known as "learned paralysis."

if its the spirit how how is it treated in these ways? and why would, even in only some cases, would your spirit continually hug your face after the hand is removed. to me it just doesnt make sense, especially since they can prove the change in the way your mind maps out differently logically explaining the sensation. is the soul linked to it entirely? i cant say for i am not God, but to me this other explanation makes more sense and i think should atleast be considered

more or less your brin is used to the hand being there and cant make sense of it being gone so it compensates

sorry for veering so far off point carlotta

[carlotta]

I was watching the first season of '3rd rock from the sun' on DVD (hurrah, no commerials every 2 minutes!) and one of the episodes dealt with a professor who died and caused the aliens to realise how much they like their human bodies. These aliens were inhabiting bodies, learning how to use them and enjoying the feelings that they could have with the bodies. This parallels the philosophy I've been working on for the last week or so.

I think that long ago, when the human body was just a creature scraping its knuckles, wandering consciousnesses were attracted to the bodies and evolved to be part of the bodies, separating from the body at death to either roam the universe or return and enter another body at conception.

[Marilyn Jackson]

The above sounds like Scientology thinking to me.
{Shrug}

[carlotta]

Marilyn Jackson, on Nov 22 2009, 02:44 AM, said:

The above sounds like Scientology thinking to me.
{Shrug}

There are no alien lizards in my theory, although I'm not saying they don't exist. I also have no expensive tap water or mineral supplements to sell you. *grin*