27 replies to this topic

[CaveRat2]

Most investigations follow the same pattern. The group goes in, takes some pictures or video and uses audio recorders in the hopes of obtaining an EVP. Maybe some additional equipment such as IR or FLIR is also utilized. An EMF Meter may also be employed, and naturally the group does a background history on the location. If done correctly this would be a basic investigation, documented and recorded. The results though are generally the same for these investigations. Some dust orbs, maybe a questionable audio recording, or at best a vague anomaly on a picture or video. This is to be expected; after all if everyone does the same thing, conducts the same type of investigation, would it not be expected to obtain the same results?

I would contend what is needed is a fresh approach, a different way of observing, new equipment or using the old equipment in a different manner. This thread is for your ideas regarding new equipment or methods. Post your ideas, think outside the box. Consider the possibility that what we call ghosts may in fact be something else entirely. (The idea that they are spirits of the dead is, after all, still unproven!) Consider new ways to observe them if that should be the case.

Then consider how to implement your idea. Do you need some new type of device? Are you willing to sit down and develop a means to test your theory? This is where the research comes in, can you work with others to develop the tests needed? Even the special equipment that may be required, that may not be as far out of the question as would seem. If a means is developed to test a theory, and some background is provided, it may be quite possible to design and build such equipment. (That is what I do, specialty electronics.) But before something can be developed the need must be identified. Anyone willing to sit down and batter some ideas back and forth, let me know! There are no right or wrongs here, but maybe if some of us can get together and kick some ideas around we may be able to actually break new ground!

So put your ideas out there!

[OMPRDave]

I think that the study of magnetic fields and ions is something most worthy of studying in a new fashion. Up until now the majority of researchers have been restricted to using individual meters to determine fluctuations in magnetic fields or sampling air ion counts. I feel that the development of an array of sensors that can send real time data to a computer for monitoring and analysis will offer researchers much more crucial data in exploring these areas. If utilized with built in microphones, weather gathering equipment, vibration detection and infrasound monitoring, and used in conjunction with video monitoring we could potentially have a system that will do the work of many other pieces of equipment and give us a solid standard piece of equipment that can offer us an encompassing eye on several fronts and have the data at our fingertips to see if there is anything correlating among them.

[Moody98]

Sounds like a good idea. An iPhone would be perfect for this. Have all your data and recordings download directly to a program on your computer. Since the iPhone is basically a handheld computer it could sync right with your computer. Someone would have to make Ann app that can sync to ghost hunting analysis programs on your computer.

[grimshawl]

Maybe simply being able to adjust the duration of the investigation of a location so that it is much longer than the normal 8 to 10 hours would improve the odds of capturing phenomona. I think that setting up all the equiptment and making it viable for it to run for days or up to even a week at a time would be a good step if a location can be reserved for such a period. I also think that the majority of that time the place should be empty of everyone including investigators. Lastly I think some new software or programs need to be developed to assist in going thru evidence, audio and video that will help tag anomallies for further scrutinee by the investigation team as I feel that human nature and our attention spans are not capable of going thru such an extensive amount of evidence and giving it all our greatest attention.

[rk_searcher]

Hello, I'm new to the board and have enjoyed reading some of the background on equipment and experiences. It's nice to see a more serious analytical approach being taken as compared to what I've seen elsewhere.

Since this particular board is more focussed on equipment, it seemed more appropriate to post here.

I've got a rather unique situation where my sister's place has had pretty regular activity for years. This has allowed me to do 24/7 monitoring via an audio/camera system I put together which is monitored/controlled by a computer. I've captured LOTS of audio and few interesting video pieces. The audio, when it comes through, is not subtle. It's "normal conversation" level along with a lot of movement noise of stuff. It's not "buried in the white noise" audio as most seem to experience. For all the sounds of things being moved, nothing is ever seen out of place and I have yet to catch any object moving on video. The other thing is it is very rare to hear any of these strong sounds with your ears. The house is very quiet as it is located out in the sticks.

An interesting characteristic on the sound I'm trying to sort out is that it appears I get different
levels of recording depending on the type of mic being used. Magnetic mics seem to respond better than electret types but not always. Since you almost never hear anything with the naked ear in this place, I'm beginning to believe these are more of a electro-magnetic or electrostatic events rather than accoustical ones.

So my next experiments will use a custom EMF (H field) detection circuit on one audio channel and the usual mic on the other. I will allow this to collect for a month or so and then switch over to a electrostatic (E field) detection circuit and mic setup for awhile. This should answer the question of where most of the energy of the 'sound' is. Magnetic mics while obviously respond to sound waves also respond to magnetic waves. So I think this approach should help sort things out.

One of the really strange aspects of this place is whenever I make changes to the environment by swapping or moving equipment, things tend to quiet down for as much as a week before resuming activity. There have been several very well equipped investigative groups go through that come away with very little. It seems whatever is behind this is quite shy.

I'll post my results when I get them.

[icenine]

A differential amp that works something like this. It starts with a pair of antennas (window screens?), each antenna placed on an opposite side of a room. The diff amp is mostly broadband, but a 60Hz notch may be there, switchable in and out. Not actually a diff amp, more like two identical, but out of phase, MOSFET detectors, each detector inputted into a dual trace scope. Perhaps excitation of some sort would be necessary. Hopefully not, that would be sticky.

Something gets in between the two antennas and baseline readings may be thrown off, the unexpected differences can be viewed as movement of the scope trace. My scope can record what is fed into it, I wouldn't have to be there to capture activity.

This may work nicely in conjunction with audio and perhaps a stand alone EMF detector, just as a sanity check.

I've been thinking about this in a general sort of way, haven't put much (any, until right now) thought into the nuts and bolts, but if this is feasible, it may be a nice way of recording changes to the electrical signature of an entire room. (Electrical Signature, you heard it here first)

Haven't see anyone try anything like this yet,

PS- Looking at a spectrum analyzer may be interesting when an EMF detector gets tripped. An EMF detector gets tripped, but tripped by what? A spectrum analyzer may provide an interesting look. Haven't heard of anything like that being done either.

Cheers,
Rich

[CaveRat2]

Sounds somewhat like an electrostatic monitor. The screen however would likely allow the semnsitivity to be ramped up and cover a wider area. one addition might be a consideration in this. Suppose you placed a third scren midpoint in the room.... Then used the two as differential amps as you suggest. It would give a center point of reference if the signal were nulled out initially to establish a baseline. Then any variation either more positive or negative on either side of the midpoint would show on the scope (Use dual trace of course) Either trace could move above or below the center point.

As far as the spectrumanalyzer, I have done that with many EMF waveforms I have detected. There is no one point that I have found they have in common but the analysis definitely does help isolate frequencies and wave patterns which caused the activation. This is actually a standard practice with me when EMF is recorded.

[icenine]

Sounds somewhat like an electrostatic monitor. The screen however would likely allow the semnsitivity to be ramped up and cover a wider area. one addition might be a consideration in this. Suppose you placed a third scren midpoint in the room.... Then used the two as differential amps as you suggest. It would give a center point of reference if the signal were nulled out initially to establish a baseline. Then any variation either more positive or negative on either side of the midpoint would show on the scope (Use dual trace of course) Either trace could move above or below the center point.

As far as the spectrumanalyzer, I have done that with many EMF waveforms I have detected. There is no one point that I have found they have in common but the analysis definitely does help isolate frequencies and wave patterns which caused the activation. This is actually a standard practice with me when EMF is recorded.

Thank you for fine-tuning my idea. Of course there would need to be a common reference, scope gnd to the center to that third screen in the room? Also, do you think a 60hZ notch would be worthwhile? A really tight notch, I wouldn't want to wipe out anything of interest.

I'm delighted to hear that you use a spectrum analyzer. It seemed like such a sensible thing to do, I'm surprised that these TV guys run around with electricians tools, but genuine electronic test equipment? I've never seen it done. Thank you for sharing the results of your analysis of EMF anomalies you've detected. I was really, really wondering if there would be a particular portion of the spectrum plot that would be either consistent or unusual.

I very much enjoyed my trip to your website. Keep up the good work.

Thank you for your input, recommendations, and observations.

Regards,
Rich

[CaveRat2]

You could use a notch filter but with the type of analysis possible using a spectrum analyzer and o'scope why do it? It is not difficult to detect any secondary signal riding along on top of a 60 Hz signal using these devices so why not just record it as deceted and filter durring the analysis process? That way you could also pick out a second 60Hz signal running out of phase with the primary 60 Hz. This would open a way to detect what might otherwise be lost if one simply filtered everything at a given frequency.

[icenine]

You could use a notch filter but with the type of analysis possible using a spectrum analyzer and o'scope why do it? It is not difficult to detect any secondary signal riding along on top of a 60 Hz signal using these devices so why not just record it as deceted and filter durring the analysis process? That way you could also pick out a second 60Hz signal running out of phase with the primary 60 Hz. This would open a way to detect what might otherwise be lost if one simply filtered everything at a given frequency.

I ended up building a 1000X diff amp using a chip designed for that purpose. The chip is jumper programmable, 10X, 100X, 1000X. Common mode rejection knocks out part of the 60Hz, but it's there, and there's a lot of it. At 1000X (where I would like to be) 60Hz swamps the amp. I need to do something. Either a high pass filter, or a notch (or I'm missing something) I like your idea, inverting and introducing 60Hz, but I'm not sure how to do it. Because my detector is a diff amp, the only way I can figure out how to introduce the 60Hz as you suggest is to introcuce a pair of 60Hz signals, each introduced signal out of phase with both diff inputs. My gut says it won't work, but my sig generator will output a pair of signals, 180 degrees out of phase. Easy enough to see if it works. If this thing works, there's plenty of room in he chassis box I've selected to put a pair of LM3914's and a bunch of LED's. Maybe makes a nice, stand-alone instrument.

I'll post a schematic once the thing is dialed in a bit. For now, I have some work to do. Thanks for your help with this project, I really appreciate your insights.

Cheers
Rich

[CaveRat2]

Your difficulties with common mode rejection seem to indicate something wrong with the design of the input. Likely the gain of each leg is unbalanced for some reason. Do you use any coupling caps? If so that could create a phase shift (current versus voltage lead / lag) Do you use a true bipolar power source (positive and negaitive supplies) versus a biased input? (Recommended)

I have use differential inputs on many devices and not had a problem with common mode even when dealing with signals in the microvolt regions. Blocking a stray 60 Hz should not be difficult..

[icenine]

Your difficulties with common mode rejection seem to indicate something wrong with the design of the input. Likely the gain of each leg is unbalanced for some reason. Do you use any coupling caps? If so that could create a phase shift (current versus voltage lead / lag) Do you use a true bipolar power source (positive and negaitive supplies) versus a biased input? (Recommended)

I have use differential inputs on many devices and not had a problem with common mode even when dealing with signals in the microvolt regions. Blocking a stray 60 Hz should not be difficult..

No coupling caps, but a pair of 10K resistors in between the antenna leads and the diff amp inputs, just for safety. I am using an audio amp IC that splits Vcc exactly in half as my voltage regulator. I've done this before for projects that require a bipolar supply without any problems. My best guess is that the 60Hz component is the result of different levels of 60Hz entering the diff amp inputs due to unbalance as a result of antenna placement. I haven't played around with this in a while, no time now for this stuff, but when I revisit this I'll probably end up doing some sort of high pass filtering on the diff amp inputs.More complexity than I hoped for, but that's the only way I can think of to eliminate the 60Hz hum that will work and that's not a ton of work for me.

Thanks,
Rich

[CaveRat2]

Something else to consider. Have you done an EM Field sweep of the room? It is possible since your screens are some distance apart they are not receiving equal EM Field levels thus creating the imbalance. The fix would be one of two things; either shield the entire room to block any stray EM Fields or apply a controlled 60 Hz signal to one or the other input legs to null it out. You will have to experiment to get the signal 180 degrees out of phase with the offending signal.

[no1plumbrr]

just throwing this out there, the only Tech I know of is plumbing and pipe fitting lol.

how about something like a radio telescope, but on the way of a type of video camera ?

Just thinking about all the stuff they can see far out in space. Just a thought, prob. not a good one....

[CaveRat2]

Actually that is being done and has been underway for several years. I have visited one of the radio telescopes in Greenbank WVa. and even had the opportunity to use a 40 foot dish down there. You can read about the program online, just google SETI (Search for Extrterrestrial Intelligence)