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Where is the Soul?


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#1 Iam

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:07 AM

Live death freeze show
Friday, July 21, 2006 The first-ever footage of a person Liquid nitrogen being cryonically frozen after death is to be shown on Channel Five.

The 60-minute film Death in the Deep Freeze will follow a woman who is terminally ill with cancer.

It will also show the 'shocking and compelling' invasive procedure used to freeze her, along with interviews while she is still alive.


There is no evidence that it works

The process, which has been performed on about 150 people, involves freezing the body in the hope that it can one day be brought back to life.

Soon after the person dies, water in the body is replaced with an antifreeze to stop cells deteriorating.

Once the water has been replaced, the body is cooled using dry ice until it reaches -130°C (-202°F) The final step is to put the body into a metal container and immerse it in a tank full of liquid nitrogen.

Independent production firm Zig Zag, which is also making the controversial documentary on Britain's first 'masturbate-a-thon' for Channel 4, spent months negotiating to secure access to the procedure.

Executive producer Jes Wilkins said: 'We're really very proud of what we have achieved with this programme. The human and emotional journey we captured and the ethical questions raised makes for one of our most fascinating productions to date.'

The Cryonics Institute in Michigan, where the film was made, has 70 bodies in liquid nitrogen. Its president Ben Best said he was happy for viewers to see the procedure.

'I hope this film opens people's eyes to the benefits of cryonics,' he added.

However, the Linacre Centre of Health Care Ethic, a Catholic science group, believes it is a waste of time.

Member Anthony McCarthy said: 'This is not a serious medical treatment.

I'm concerned people are spending vast amounts on a procedure where there is no evidence that it works.'

The programme is due to be shown at the end of the month.

More on this at:
http://www.metro.co....79&in_page_id=2

My question is this, what will happen to the soul of a person who is still alive and goes into this state? And how does your religious beliefs support this decision?
I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.

#2 Prometheus

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:14 AM

I dont know for sure but hopefully my eternal life force would be heading onto warmer climates (and not wih a religious desingnation in mind) where it could linger by a cool body of water and a magaritta in hand.I dont really have a religious orientation with which to answer this except to say that I believe in exsistance beyond the physical realm.

#3 feusurlaneige

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:40 AM

I just wondered if they have done any experiments with animals that have died and bought them back? It just seems to be messing with the laws of the universe.

#4 Vivienne_DuBois

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 08:54 AM

Iam,

Where the soul goes is a very difficult question to answer, I'm glad you posted it. I try to put myself in the soul’s position. As I see it, the soul is alive and constantly beating, somehow echoing within our lives. It’s difficult to put into words. But, without life – tactile living and fulfillment – the soul survives but still needs something to beat, echo along with that is not a part of the state that is being referred to in this article/experiment you posted. I would think the soul would move on to greener pastures, so-to-say.

As far as religious beliefs go in correlation of the above, I believe our eternal is our soul. God grants us this so that our spirit/soul (our active part of God) never truly dies so that we will always remain an active member of His realm. He does not want that part of Himself to suffocate and so it moves on if it finds itself in such a situation. This correlates to the soul's actions in life, death and anywhere in-between, in my beliefs.

:weeee:

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#5 petunia4998

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 11:55 AM

No. I'm afraid that when death occurs, the silver cord is severed and it cannot be brought back, ever, to the same body. As for where the soul goes, it's difficult to answer because we mortals cannot see the places it goes. It goes to the Hall of Judgement, where we observe and evaluate our own lives, it goes to limbo or hell, neither of which really exist unless the person him/herself has believed that's where they're going. Some go straight through the tunnel. There are many places the soul can go, it's just that we can't see them and because we don't understand the spirit world. There really isn't a specific "place" they go. Do you understand what I'm saying?
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#6 Iam

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 02:28 PM

Perhaps, I needed to be a little clearer on what I was attempting to say. If, for a fact someday they will be able to bring this person back, will the original soul come back when this individual begins to breath on its own and respond to the stimuli of its surroundings. Or would it be a emotionaless empty body?
I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.

#7 pentagram345

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 06:07 PM

Perhaps, I needed to be a little clearer on what I was attempting to say. If, for a fact someday they will be able to bring this person back, will the original soul come back when this individual begins to breath on its own and respond to the stimuli of its surroundings. Or would it be a emotionaless empty body?

well thats my question for cloning if there is two people that are the same in their structure is there a way the other will have a soul and a sense of good and bad or will it be brainless like a zombie and (hopefully not)eat people sorry had to say it

#8 aloha_spirit

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 06:30 PM

Your soul is not in your DNA. Identical twins share the exact same DNA but have different personalities. Clones are just identical twins born at different times. AFAIK, there is no scientific way to store the state of the soul so that it can later be restored or duplicated.

As a Christian, I do believe in an eventual resurrection for everyone, but the jury's still out on all the details.

I didn't lose my mind - I have it backed up on a disk ... somewhere


#9 DeadWatch

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 06:51 PM

Not too sure which side of the fence I want to stand on here. I am far from religious, but I still believe there could be a possibility of a soul. Is it eternal...who knows...we'll just have to see!!!

Edited by DeadWatch, 27 July 2006 - 06:52 PM.

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#10 Iam

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 09:45 PM

I think this is a scary thought, I am assuming (in part because I know nothing about what happens to the body when it is put into this type of suspended state) that you are clinically dead for all purposes, so the soul would be released and given the chance to begin its journey to where ever it goes. If one were to be brought back to life without their soul, how could it function with the intent to be compassionate, etc etc?

I really am confused by all of this.
I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.

#11 DeadWatch

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 09:55 PM

Is it possible that the "soul" is nothing more than firing of synapsis in the brain...do we really see a white light or is it a process when the brain is dying? Possibly a chemical reaction that helps us as humans deal with the process of dying. I work Hospice as a living and I see death a lot...all I know is usually a few days before death there is only minimal brain activity, seems that is usually the last organ to die. Just some questions that I ask myself from time to time.
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#12 petunia4998

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 02:33 PM

No DeadWatch, I have seen the white light and I was very much alive when I saw it. It is not a fiction of the brain, it exists.

And I maintain that once the silver cord is severed, the soul will not come back to that body. No one who has died can be resurrected in the same physical body. It just doesn't happen.
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#13 spooksareus

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 08:46 PM

Perhaps, I needed to be a little clearer on what I was attempting to say. If, for a fact someday they will be able to bring this person back, will the original soul come back when this individual begins to breath on its own and respond to the stimuli of its surroundings. Or would it be a emotionaless empty body?


Boy I hope it's an empty body :wow: My god, think of the boredom! :yawn: Another question: if the soul departs that body and then it is re-animated at another time, does the former souls need to go back to that body? And another thing, what if that soul is already reincarnated in another body, does it split off, or can a different soul jump in?

BAD_WORD your eyes Iam!

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#14 Iam

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 12:34 AM

LOL@Spook.....

Some good replies, and Dead Watch you did leave a very viable statement. None of us will ever know what happens when we die until we take that journey. But, I am of opinion that, if one comes back from this state, THERE will be no soul nor any form of healthy thought process to base this new entities values on...Simple....Zombie state, perhaps,

Or Perhaps, there are walk-in spirits already waiting in these so called halls who have claimed these type bodies.......Hmmmmmm!!!
I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.

#15 Prometheus

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 12:51 AM

LOL@Spook.....

Some good replies, and Dead Watch you did leave a very viable statement. None of us will ever know what happens when we die until we take that journey. But, I am of opinion that, if one comes back from this state, THERE will be no soul nor any form of healthy thought process to base this new entities values on...Simple....Zombie state, perhaps,


What an interesting mental excercise,pondering wether the reunification of body and soul is possible after an extended period of time.I am not sure if I would be be on the pro or con side of this arguement.After all there is many factors one could consider.I would think at face value,would thing that may have escaped scientists is this very element. Meaning, does the body need the soul in order to survive ?.Surely,the scientist in all his arrogance has the belief that one day he shall be knowledgable enough to reanimate the frozen corpse,but what if the body can not function with out the soul anymore than it would not function with out the brain ?.This would seem to throw a monkey wrench into the whole walking popcicle scenerio.

Now,on the real question of wether your soul would return to your body if reanimated after death is fundamentally a sticky question.First, we would have to consider some of the belief systems out there and see how those beliefs would impact this scenerio.When looking at the standard christian belief that your soul goes to heaven when you die,it would probably be frowned upon if you were to boot scoot out of heaven to return to your body after working so hard to get in there in the first place.If your in the school of thought that we go through out time and hop from one life to another and make choices as to the lessons we will learn before coming into the physical,then you would know that your soul would be taking a little vacation as your body lies next to the frozen beef paties for a few years,and then you would have to return.So in that case it might be alright,a bit of R & R for the soul,even better than chicken soup.

Finally,I would say that if NDE people can be believed,then that lends us some evidence in the search for the answer to this question.Most NDE people state that they left the body at the point of death but when the
body was brought back to life,they felt pulled back into forcefully.If these accounts are accurate,then it seems to reason the same would happen no matter what the length of time was,if time even has any meaning on the spiritual plane.




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