Thank you, again, Logan for the beautiful photos. Looking especially at the view of the entire cemetery through the trees brought to mind a book (hope it's okay to put this here rather than 'Paranormal Media' forum??) that fits in beautifully (at least to me) with this topic. It's rather a short book, but packs a punch in a very subdued manner, and has always struck me as 'sad' in a way I can't quite put my finger on. The author is Peter S. Beagle that some of you fantasy readers may remember wrote The Last Unicorn (at least I think that was the title; been too long since I last read it). It is the story of a man who 'lives' among ghosts in a cemetery. Yes, he is a living man, but he is drawn - here's the Thanatology connection - to cemeteries, and on top of that can see and relate to the dead. It is a very brief study in one persons' dissatisfaction or awkwardness with the real world. Of course, it begs the question what is the 'real world' and how thick IS the veil between worlds? Seems as though the book, A Fine and Private Place, would be the perfect emblem of Thanatology. (If the administrator feels that this should be in 'Media' or Paranormal Books - I apologize)
2
Thanatology
Started by
loganinkosovo
, Dec 26 2009 06:05 PM
184 replies to this topic
#31
dancinmiriam
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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:22 PM
I see dance being used as communication between body and soul, to express what is too deep, too fine, for words. ~ Ruth St. Denis
#32
loganinkosovo
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 06:23 PM
Pacheco Cemetery, Pacheco, California
The small hilltop Pacheco Cemetery started off as a Family plot for the Rancher who owned the land there. It grew into a community plot and finally an incorporated Cemetery.
The Odd Fellows Lodge operated it for over 70 years but as the Odd Fellows died, so did the cemetery. It seems to have been used as a sort of potter's field for many years also. Time, the Elements, Earthquakes, Neglect and Vandalism have taken their toll on the grounds. Good records weren't kept by the Odd Fellows and many graves have been lost with the disappearance of markers and many graves may have never had one.
When the present owners took over this abandoned cemetery you could not see most of the stones that were left due to the waist high weeds and the piles of rubbish. They are still in the process of restoring the land and the graves. It has been reopened to interments and the director/owner has big plans for the site.
They plan to bring in ground penetrating radar in the spring to locate the lost graves....many of which are in the children's area. Every time it rains more submerged headstones are being uncovered. I suggested a "Dowser" in the interim to find them. That earned me a "Weird" look.
A sad story all around but with a silver lining of hope.
The one woman who was killed from my county during the great war....
The small hilltop Pacheco Cemetery started off as a Family plot for the Rancher who owned the land there. It grew into a community plot and finally an incorporated Cemetery.
The Odd Fellows Lodge operated it for over 70 years but as the Odd Fellows died, so did the cemetery. It seems to have been used as a sort of potter's field for many years also. Time, the Elements, Earthquakes, Neglect and Vandalism have taken their toll on the grounds. Good records weren't kept by the Odd Fellows and many graves have been lost with the disappearance of markers and many graves may have never had one.
When the present owners took over this abandoned cemetery you could not see most of the stones that were left due to the waist high weeds and the piles of rubbish. They are still in the process of restoring the land and the graves. It has been reopened to interments and the director/owner has big plans for the site.
They plan to bring in ground penetrating radar in the spring to locate the lost graves....many of which are in the children's area. Every time it rains more submerged headstones are being uncovered. I suggested a "Dowser" in the interim to find them. That earned me a "Weird" look.
A sad story all around but with a silver lining of hope.
The one woman who was killed from my county during the great war....
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#33
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 06:24 PM
Pacheco Cemetery, Pacheco, California
Early Japanese immigrants who were brought over at the turn of the century to harvest the orchards and farms in our area. Many of them are known but to God.
Buried just before his parents were hauled off to internment camps by that paragon of virtue, FDR.
Early Japanese immigrants who were brought over at the turn of the century to harvest the orchards and farms in our area. Many of them are known but to God.
Buried just before his parents were hauled off to internment camps by that paragon of virtue, FDR.
Edited by loganinkosovo, 10 January 2010 - 06:25 PM.
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#34
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 06:35 PM
Pioneer Physician John Marsh was murdered by three of this rancho employees not far from the site of the Pacheco Cemetery in Pacheco, California.
From Wikipedia....
From Wikipedia....
Quote
“Doctor” John Marsh was born in 1799 in South Danvers, Massachusetts and died in Pacheco, California in 1856. He was an early pioneer and settler in California, and is often regarded as the first physician in California.
Marsh graduated from Phillips Academy in Andover in 1819. He attended Harvard University from 1819 to 1823 and received a bachelor’s degree. He then studied medicine with a Boston doctor.
Marsh migrated to the West, living in the Michigan Territory, where he opened a school, the first in what is now Minnesota. Marsh became an Indian agent for the Sioux Agency, and took a French/Indian mistress who bore him a son named Charles.
Marsh resumed his study of medicine, with a Dr. Purcell of Fort Snelling. He lived in Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin, where he got involved in the Black Hawk War between the Sioux and their rivals, the Fox and Sauk, and was blamed for a massacre of the Fox and Sauk by the Sioux. As a result, he was forced to flee to New Salem, Illinois, taking his mistress and small child with him.[citation needed] Leaving them there, he returned to Prairie du Chien. His mistress, pregnant again and abandoned by her lover, tried to walk for several hundred miles to rejoin him. The journey exhausted her and she and the child died in childbirth. Marsh then gave his small son to a Painter family in New Salem to be raised, and once again became involved in Indian affairs. He was discovered selling guns illegally to some of the Indians and had to flee the territory, this time settling in Independence, Missouri, where he became a merchant. He visited his son once more, then his business failed and he emigrated to Southern California via the Santa Fe Trail.
In southern California, Marsh found that he was the only person who had any knowledge of western medicine. He presented his Harvard degree to the local authorities. The degree was written in Latin, which none of them could read, so they took his word and granted him permission to practice medicine. Marsh was quite successful in his new profession, but his prices were very high, sometimes as much as a head of cattle to deliver a baby.
Eventually he made enemies in Southern California and moved north in 1837 to the eastern side of Mount Diablo in what is now Contra Costa County. He acquired the Rancho Los Meganos Mexican land grant from Jose Noriega on what is now called Marsh Creek on the western edge of the town of Brentwood and just to the east of what is now Clayton, California. He prospered here, but he once again engaged in sharp business practices. He began to practice medicine, and again charged very high prices. There is some evidence that he cared for some of the survivors of the Donner Party while living near Mount Diablo. In addition, he paid very low wages to his workers, and many of them hated him.
During this period he began a search for his son, Charles, which proved to be fruitless. In 1851, the Reverend William W. Smith introduced Marsh to Abigail "Abby" Smith Tuck, a schoolteacher from New England, who also served as principal at a girls school in San Jose. After a brief two-week courtship, they were married. Soon after the wedding, the couple moved into the old adobe. On 12 March 1852, she gave birth to a daughter they named Alice.
Marsh soon began construction of a magnificent home built entirely of stone quarried from the nearby hills. Abby chose the location of the home next to Marsh Creek, with a fine view of the surrounding valley and Mount Diablo, a few miles south of the present city of Brentwood, California. Designed by San Francisco architect Thomas Boyd, the Gothic-Revival style home incorporated a sixty-five foot tower and exterior porch supported by octagon pillars. The entire cost of the home did not exceed $20,000. Abby died, however, before the Stone House was completed. Marsh ultimately moved into the new house about three weeks before he was murdered.
His son and daughter lived in the stone house, and then renters, and finally fell into disrepair and decay. The mansion, undergoing stabilization since 2006, still stands as part of Cowell Ranch/John Marsh Property State Historic Park which is preparing to apply for status as a National Historic Monument. The Mansion is on the list of National Historic Places, and funds are being sought for restoration. It is not open to the public.
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Marsh was active in California politics. On 24 September 1856, he began a journey from his land in eastern Contra Costa County to San Francisco for a personal or political appointment. On the road between Pacheco and Martinez, he was ambushed and murdered by three of his "vaquero" employees over a dispute over their wages. A California Historical Landmark (#722) plaque still marks the site of the murder.
According to local tradition, shortly before his death, a young man approached his door seeking shelter from a harsh storm. It was his son Charles, who had journeyed to California in search of his father. They enjoyed a happy, although short-lived reunion. Charles tracked down his father’s murderer, Felipe Moreno, and brought him to justice.
Alice Marsh was entrusted to the care of Mrs. Thompson at Marsh’s Landing, not far from present day Antioch, California. Alice Marsh married John Camron, one of the builders of Mt. Diablo toll road.
An elementary school in Antioch, California bears Marsh's name.
The California State Route 4 bypass around the cities of Oakley, California and Brentwood, California has been named John Marsh Heritage Highway in honor of Dr. Marsh.
Marsh graduated from Phillips Academy in Andover in 1819. He attended Harvard University from 1819 to 1823 and received a bachelor’s degree. He then studied medicine with a Boston doctor.
Marsh migrated to the West, living in the Michigan Territory, where he opened a school, the first in what is now Minnesota. Marsh became an Indian agent for the Sioux Agency, and took a French/Indian mistress who bore him a son named Charles.
Marsh resumed his study of medicine, with a Dr. Purcell of Fort Snelling. He lived in Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin, where he got involved in the Black Hawk War between the Sioux and their rivals, the Fox and Sauk, and was blamed for a massacre of the Fox and Sauk by the Sioux. As a result, he was forced to flee to New Salem, Illinois, taking his mistress and small child with him.[citation needed] Leaving them there, he returned to Prairie du Chien. His mistress, pregnant again and abandoned by her lover, tried to walk for several hundred miles to rejoin him. The journey exhausted her and she and the child died in childbirth. Marsh then gave his small son to a Painter family in New Salem to be raised, and once again became involved in Indian affairs. He was discovered selling guns illegally to some of the Indians and had to flee the territory, this time settling in Independence, Missouri, where he became a merchant. He visited his son once more, then his business failed and he emigrated to Southern California via the Santa Fe Trail.
In southern California, Marsh found that he was the only person who had any knowledge of western medicine. He presented his Harvard degree to the local authorities. The degree was written in Latin, which none of them could read, so they took his word and granted him permission to practice medicine. Marsh was quite successful in his new profession, but his prices were very high, sometimes as much as a head of cattle to deliver a baby.
Eventually he made enemies in Southern California and moved north in 1837 to the eastern side of Mount Diablo in what is now Contra Costa County. He acquired the Rancho Los Meganos Mexican land grant from Jose Noriega on what is now called Marsh Creek on the western edge of the town of Brentwood and just to the east of what is now Clayton, California. He prospered here, but he once again engaged in sharp business practices. He began to practice medicine, and again charged very high prices. There is some evidence that he cared for some of the survivors of the Donner Party while living near Mount Diablo. In addition, he paid very low wages to his workers, and many of them hated him.
During this period he began a search for his son, Charles, which proved to be fruitless. In 1851, the Reverend William W. Smith introduced Marsh to Abigail "Abby" Smith Tuck, a schoolteacher from New England, who also served as principal at a girls school in San Jose. After a brief two-week courtship, they were married. Soon after the wedding, the couple moved into the old adobe. On 12 March 1852, she gave birth to a daughter they named Alice.
Marsh soon began construction of a magnificent home built entirely of stone quarried from the nearby hills. Abby chose the location of the home next to Marsh Creek, with a fine view of the surrounding valley and Mount Diablo, a few miles south of the present city of Brentwood, California. Designed by San Francisco architect Thomas Boyd, the Gothic-Revival style home incorporated a sixty-five foot tower and exterior porch supported by octagon pillars. The entire cost of the home did not exceed $20,000. Abby died, however, before the Stone House was completed. Marsh ultimately moved into the new house about three weeks before he was murdered.
His son and daughter lived in the stone house, and then renters, and finally fell into disrepair and decay. The mansion, undergoing stabilization since 2006, still stands as part of Cowell Ranch/John Marsh Property State Historic Park which is preparing to apply for status as a National Historic Monument. The Mansion is on the list of National Historic Places, and funds are being sought for restoration. It is not open to the public.
Marsh was active in California politics. On 24 September 1856, he began a journey from his land in eastern Contra Costa County to San Francisco for a personal or political appointment. On the road between Pacheco and Martinez, he was ambushed and murdered by three of his "vaquero" employees over a dispute over their wages. A California Historical Landmark (#722) plaque still marks the site of the murder.
According to local tradition, shortly before his death, a young man approached his door seeking shelter from a harsh storm. It was his son Charles, who had journeyed to California in search of his father. They enjoyed a happy, although short-lived reunion. Charles tracked down his father’s murderer, Felipe Moreno, and brought him to justice.
Alice Marsh was entrusted to the care of Mrs. Thompson at Marsh’s Landing, not far from present day Antioch, California. Alice Marsh married John Camron, one of the builders of Mt. Diablo toll road.
An elementary school in Antioch, California bears Marsh's name.
The California State Route 4 bypass around the cities of Oakley, California and Brentwood, California has been named John Marsh Heritage Highway in honor of Dr. Marsh.
Edited by loganinkosovo, 10 January 2010 - 06:36 PM.
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#35
Cryscat
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 09:35 PM
Went to Manzanar and got these photos in the graveyard there. Most people who had been buried there were move lated on, these are a few that were not moved.
Don't take life too seriously, no one ever gets out alive.
#36
loganinkosovo
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Posted 12 January 2010 - 05:33 PM
St. Mary's Cemetery, Oakland, California.
The Peraltas were the Spanish Dons who owned the Land Grant the entire East Bay sits on.
The Peraltas were the Spanish Dons who owned the Land Grant the entire East Bay sits on.
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#37
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Posted 12 January 2010 - 05:49 PM
St. Mary's continued.....
Sisters of the Holy Names
Sisters of the Holy Names
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#38
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Posted 16 January 2010 - 07:46 PM
Mt. View Deux
aka: The other half of Mt. View cemetery
The cemetery is so big it took two days to walk through and I really could have taken a week.
Part 1
aka: The other half of Mt. View cemetery
The cemetery is so big it took two days to walk through and I really could have taken a week.
Part 1
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#39
loganinkosovo
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Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:01 PM
Mt. View Deux
Part 2
The Pen is Mightier......
Alice Cameron, Daughter of California Pioneer John Marsh.
Erna Lies here....
Part 2
The Pen is Mightier......
Alice Cameron, Daughter of California Pioneer John Marsh.
Erna Lies here....
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#40
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Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:26 PM
dancinmiriam, on Jan 6 2010, 08:22 PM, said:
Thank you, again, Logan for the beautiful photos. Looking especially at the view of the entire cemetery through the trees brought to mind a book (hope it's okay to put this here rather than 'Paranormal Media' forum??) that fits in beautifully (at least to me) with this topic. It's rather a short book, but packs a punch in a very subdued manner, and has always struck me as 'sad' in a way I can't quite put my finger on. The author is Peter S. Beagle that some of you fantasy readers may remember wrote The Last Unicorn (at least I think that was the title; been too long since I last read it). It is the story of a man who 'lives' among ghosts in a cemetery. Yes, he is a living man, but he is drawn - here's the Thanatology connection - to cemeteries, and on top of that can see and relate to the dead. It is a very brief study in one persons' dissatisfaction or awkwardness with the real world. Of course, it begs the question what is the 'real world' and how thick IS the veil between worlds? Seems as though the book, A Fine and Private Place, would be the perfect emblem of Thanatology. (If the administrator feels that this should be in 'Media' or Paranormal Books - I apologize)
Again, you are most welcome.
I'm glad you enjoy my work.
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#41
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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:00 PM
Mt. View Deux
Part 3
Part 3
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#42
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Posted 29 January 2010 - 01:49 PM
Mt. View Deux
Part 4
Part 4
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#43
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Posted 06 February 2010 - 09:55 AM
Mt. View Deux
Part 5
"Old Yard Balls" ...... I wonder how he got that nickname
Part 5
"Old Yard Balls" ...... I wonder how he got that nickname
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#44
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Posted 11 February 2010 - 07:56 PM
Mt. View Deux
Part 6
A real happy guy!
Part 6
A real happy guy!
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
#45
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Posted 20 February 2010 - 02:04 PM
A Few more from Mt. View..... The Jewish section.
This one always makes me laugh for some reason......
This one always makes me laugh for some reason......
The only difference between Socialism and National Socialism is the snappy uniforms. - Logan "Aside from ending Slavery, Fascism and Communist World Domination, War has never solved anything!""For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute! But it's "Savior of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot." - Rudyard Kipling"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."---George Orwell"Always Remember-All Lessons in Life are Expensive.....and the last one costs you everything you have." - Logan"Socialism is just Communism without a Dictator....and you can always find a Dictator!" - Logan"An Armed Man is a Citizen. An Unarmed Man is a Subject. Subject to anything anyone wants to do to him." - Logan
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