117 replies to this topic

[simman]

Take a skeptic( well know if possible) to a well known and very real haunted location and let them experience things on a first hand basis and see what they have to say. Most likely something like this, Uh, uh, uh......

Edited by simman, 12 February 2009 - 10:20 PM.

[cotton08]

I know you can change a skeptic's mind because i was a skeptic.

I think, Simman, the thing about posting on boards is that you are going to get peoples' honest opinions. But they are just that: their opinions.

I think the pictures you posted look like hair. That doesn't mean it's 100 percent definite that it's hair. I have posted, in 4 years, a little bit of everything on the 'net. Evps, pictures, orbs, and have had people say "it's nothing, and I am a person who knows exactly what I'm talking about".

I have, on the other hand, told people that I didn't think what they captured was "anything".

I at one time had evps that would scare anyone, clear, raw, evps. Put them on the net, and get "that's not anything, it's this or that". All the while, all hell was breaking loose in our home - things flyin' around, furniture moving - looked like a 3 ring circus in there!

So, dear, I know exactly where you're comin from and exactly how you feel. In the end, you just have to go with your gut, you know why? Because you're the one actually having the experience.

If someone tells you they don't think it's anything, it's not because they are being negative or nasty, they're just trying to help you figure out what's going on at your place. And if someone says, "I think it's hair in the picture", that does NOT mean that they think you're making up stories about everything else, it's just their take on ONE PICTURE. It doesn't mean they are discounting your experience at all.

I know how frustrating it can be, and I really feel for you right now.

[Puti]

Change a skeptic's mind? Probably not.
I grew up hearing from my Dad...."don't believe anything you hear and half of what you see". As a kid, I thought that was a pretty grim view of the world. That is until I had my own children. I realised I was saying to them the same thing using different words and it finally dawned on me what my Dad's whole point was. Think for yourself!
I've been critisized (sp?) for listening to a person's story of hauntings or orbs or whatever, and I ask them "what did you FEEL about it?" When we are there, experiencing something in our house, we are the witness and only our own opinion counts. Everyone else's opinion is just that. An opinion. Especially on a message board.

[yld1009]

I have to agree simman. Until I moved in this house, I was a little on the fence about it, even though my daughter was saying things about relatives who had passed that she could not have possibly known about, and for some reason it's always been something that has interested me. When I moved into this home, my whole perception changed. My own family can't stay and visit very long without being felt like they just need to get out. My step dad was the biggest skeptic out there until he experienced and saw what I was going through. Now...he is a total believer. He certainly expressed his feeling on the matter and for a skeptic like him, to do that says a lot. To all the skeptics out there, I say, just go to a place that you have been told is haunted or that there are facts that it is hanunted and let us know what happens.

[CaveRat2]

I consider myself somewhat of a skeptic so I will give you some insight as to waht it takes from a skeptic's point of view. I should also clarify that I am open minded, and admit there are things which would be considered paranormal. so consider the following:

First you will never convince me of anything simply from a forum. A forum post has only your opinion, I was not there to counter what you claim. Seldom should you ever take someone's word based solely on their observations simply because they say so unless you know all the conditions present at the time. And just how much of that information can be conveyed in a forum post? Unless the post is pages long, I daresay not enough. So when I call your claim into question, it's nothing personal, it's that I don't have enough information to rule out every possible alternative explanation.

Second, a skeptic is just as hard on his own evidence. If I saw something with my own eyes, I would question it. What else might it have been? And that means doubt everything. Rule out everything else. The trouble is on a forum if I started questioning someone else to that degree, they don't generally like it. They become defensive. Part of this is the ambiguity of the forum format. You can't convey your feelings by typing. So arguments break out. Skeptics have to walk on eggshells to keep from offending someone. In reality though a true skeptic is just as hard on their own evidence as they are on yours.

Third demand the same of a skeptic he demands of you. If he claims something is not paranormal he should also be able to explain why not. Simply saying the orb is dust requires also he have a reason he feels that way.He should be able to support his side as well.

Finally ask yourself the balanced question. You ask, "What does it take to change a skeptic's mind? " The skeptic might ask the same regarding any particular piece of evidence you submit, "What does it take to change YOUR mind? " If you claim it's paranormal, Why do feel so strongly it is that a skeptical approach should be ruled out?

[chestnut]

I definitely think it would require repeated experiences to change someone's mind. But if someone is hell-bent on believing or not believing a certain thing, then there's going to be very little that will sway their opinion to the other side. Experiences, facts, etc etc can be interpreted in any number of ways to suit a person, to support their own viewpoint.

[Retro]

I definitely think it would require repeated experiences to change someone's mind. But if someone is hell-bent on believing or not believing a certain thing, then there's going to be very little that will sway their opinion to the other side. Experiences, facts, etc etc can be interpreted in any number of ways to suit a person, to support their own viewpoint.

And when it comes down to that, does it really matter whether that person believes you or not? If someone is looking for the truth, they ask others. When you know the truth, it doesn't really matter if others don't believe.

[chestnut]

Right--no amount of proof will be enough to dissuade or persuade someone who strongly believes in something one way or the other. And if you have such a strong conviction, it shouldn't really matter how many people are skeptical of your beliefs.

My husband, for instance, is extremely skeptical about the existence of spirits or life after death, or anything paranormal. But it doesn't bother me because I feel very differently, and his disbelief doesn't make my feelings less strong.

[yld1009]

Amen to a lot of what has been said here. There are those, including me, that have had so many experiences that you try to explain away, but in the end cannot. Cave is right that it would take several pages to even maybe persuade a skeptic that it could in fact be paranormal. That is why we all post our pics or encounters on this forum...because we are looking for answers. I know from my stand point, that when things started occuring here at my home, I looked for logical natural reasons for these things. I am my own biggest skeptic, not to mention a scaredy cat. When things started happening here, I wanted so much to believe that there was a logical reason behind all of it, but in the end, there wasn't. It is definitely paranormal. But to convince a skeptic of this is really hard. I think even skeptics, especially the ones on this site, are looking for the same answers that I am. Otherwise, they wouldn't even bother reading or looking at anything on this particular site. JMO. I have learned a lot since posting on GV. I have learned what could be paranormal and what isn't. I have also learned that you can argue it to death, but in the end, we all still have our own opinions. Those of us who are living the nightmare of living with paranormal activity, especially bad activity want so much for others to believe us, or just want an explanation for it, or just possibly to share what we are going through with people who understand. That is why we tell our stories and post our pics. In the end, different people and different opinions is what makes this world go around. I will continue to post my pics and my encounters in the hope of getting some answers. Even though it may come from a skeptic or a true believer, I am always curious as to what others have to say or what they might think. Maybe one day, I will be lucky enough to persuade a true skeptic into thinking....o.k. maybe this is something, I can't explain it! I changed a few skeptics minds that are in my own family, so who knows.....

[CaveRat2]

I should also point out there is a difference between skeptics and cynics. A skeptic, if you tell him the sky is blue will give numerous reasons why at times it may not be blue, but in the end will get up and look and see what color it is. The cynic on the other hand will argue the point against you but no matter what will never take the first step to see for himself.

[yld1009]

Well said Cave, you are right.

[honeybeary]

Skeptics can be turned into believers. I was always skeptic up until a few years ago.

[Enderfay]

I was just wondering precisely why everyone saw the need to have this conversation really? (And I'm not trying to instigate an argument here, I'm merely pondering over the simple 'need'.... or at least the drive behind such sentiments?)

Speaking from a researchers point of view, I find infinitely more problems with a pro-paranormal belief system to that of a sceptical one, to be honest(?) In endeavouring to be impartial and objective in a research situation - for the sake of true investigation - I constantly find myself knee-deep and bogged down in unquestioning, pro-paranormal, cultural motifs...... which is infinitely more damaging / water-muddying than anything a sceptic might come out with.

At least if a true sceptic - even a cynic - reports something which might be construed as paranormal, then you think to yourself that 'hey - there might actually be something really going on here?' I've met plenty of believers who see ghosts - or believe they're experiencing the paranormal - everywhere they go, 24/7........ and I know which end of the scale I'd rather be dealing with or trying to assess 'impartially' (which is what research is really all about).

Regards,

Enderfay

[chestnut]

Why would there be anything remarkable about people having this discussion? I think it's very interesting to hear what skeptics' criteria for "proof" would be, and also what believers' views are on that criteria.

Just because people may not necessarily come to an agreement on belief vs skepticism doesn't mean the discussion can't be valuable. It's just a way of sharing viewpoints on a subject where "proof" often comes up.

[Enderfay]

Hi Chestnut,

Sorry.... but what I was trying to emphasise here is the simple fact that - in a subject which no one knows the first thing about (if they're honest) - there is invariably an underlying notion that sceptics are somehow 'flawed' in some way in taking a more measured and logical approach to the subject. Lol!!

Best wishes,

Enderfay