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#1 carlotta

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 03:14 AM

Howdy,

I'm an American living in France with socialized health care. There are no government death panels here. Instead, the elderly husbands of two colleagues are getting top notch health care. One of the husbands fell off a dock while on vacation and shattered his back. A special airplane flew him and his wife home. Could you get that sort of thing, even with health insurance in the US?

Anyone can get care in any emergency room. No one is turned away. A friend collapsed in the train when something exploded in his intestines. He was cared for from A to Z.

I can call SOS Medicin and a doctor will COME TO MY HOME! It only costs a little more than going to a doctor. Could you imagine being able to get care at home?

I see tearful, angry people creating a scene over fear that the government will screw up health care in the US. Health care there is already screwed up. Those who have money have great health care. Those without money have nothing to lose at the moment except life without a safety net.

I'm not saying that the system is perfect. There is corruption and graft and because of THAT the system is inefficient.

The only death panels I see are those at the US insurance companies. They are in the business of making money, not keeping you healthy.

Can any of our UK GV members weigh in on their healthcare?

Carlotta
Who owns the land? Only the land knows. We mortals are passersby, and our lives are but a brief moment in the great span of time and space. We are born, we live out our lives, and most of us do the best we can with it, but the wind is forever, and the rivers flow forever to the sea, and all the seasons of the weathers will come and go after we are gone. But the Earth endures, the Earth is eternal" - Earl Hamner

#2 Yosei

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 12:24 PM

I'd agree with you. I know a number of my friends( I can think of three or four offhand) have lived in Europe, and contrary to popular belief about America being the greatest country in the world( I think it's perhaps the greatest *idea* behind a country in the world, but hasn't truly kept up), they NEVER wanted to come back here and were deeply saddened when their visas ran out, have been pining to get back over ever since---and, though some of that was due to cultural opportunities, the healthcare was a big part of why they loved it there.
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#3 Night Star

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 12:56 PM

Healthcare Reform

I agree that we need healthcare reform, but there are major problems no matter which way we go.
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#4 loganinkosovo

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 01:57 PM

If obama thinks he can find half a trillion dollars in the fraud, waste and abuse of medicare...shouldn't we fix that first?

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness....nothing about "No Choice IRS Enforced Universal Health Care"

I've lived for over 20 years in Europe and you can have their health care system, I sure as hell don't want it.

And if you want free health care you can always join the Army and actually deserve it.
:)




Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling injections

http://www.telegraph...injections.html


'I was told I was too young for a smear test but now I am dying of cervical cancer at just 24'

http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz0O7JEuhBJ


Joshua's 50 mile trek with a broken arm

http://www.bucksfree...h_a_broken_arm/


Author Terry Pratchett, 60, was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease. Because Pratchett is only 60, a relatively young age to develop the disease, he cannot be prescribed the drug Aricept on NHS.

http://entertainment...icle4085858.ece


Last November, Jackie Knight was diagnosed with metastatic hepatocellular carcinoma after a checkup revealed a tumour on his liver. The consultant he was referred to told him that the most effective treatment would be Sorafenib or Nexavar. NHS denied him access to this drug because it was not “cost effective.” Knight does not know how much longer he will live.

http://www.eveningne...w...3A55:36:737


After an x-ray, Anne Thomas, 69, was told by doctors that she had only suffered bruising from falling in her garden, and was sent home. After five days of continued pain, friends took Thomas back to the hospital. She was sent home again and told to return to see a consultant in two days. The consultant determined that Thomas had a broken arm after examining the same x-ray.

Amy Thomas, 2, went to the hospital with an excruciating leg pain. After taking x-rays, doctors sent this two-year home and told her parents to “put a bag of frozen peas on it.” Thomas spent the night in pain. Her family later found out her leg was broken.

You can read the rest of them at http://www.biggovhealth.org/stories/


Canada: Thousands of surgeries may be cut in Metro Vancouver due to government underfunding, leaked paper

http://www.vancouver...t...506

Canada's Top Doctor says System Imploding

http://www.google.co...D335rGu_Z3KXoQw


Over 45,000 NHS staff call in sick every day, which is lowering standards of patient care, according to the first national NHS Health and Wellbeing Review into staff habits.

http://www.telegraph...k-each-day.html

If their systems are so great why do they come to the States when they really need help?



Socialized Medicine doesn't work in countries with just over 30 million people....It sure as hell won't work in a country of over 300 million!

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#5 Morbid

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 02:10 PM

And if you want free health care you can always join the Army and actually deserve it.


I'm glad to see playing god is still open to any Jack that wants to. I think most of us here would agree that people deserve a lot more for the constantly raising taxes. I would never lay my life on the line for a country that wouldn't do the same.

I believe people are entitled to free health care, but I see the other countries have great care compared to ours, but if it comes to America we will ruin it in some way. Obama has already said the health care system of the other countries isn't what America needs, so they're going to find a way to bastardize what a lot of us are hoping for, and we'll end up in the same rut we've always been in.

I'm without health care and in poor shape. I've got back problems everyday and nothing I can do about it. But also, if I were to get a job where I could afford care, the job wouldn't last, as I can't work well with my back in bad condition. Thus, I need health care to fix my back so I can get a job to get health care to fix my back.

Gotta love the circular ways of life.

I didn't read all the articles the previous poster added, but I noticed one about broken bones going undiagnosed. My mother fell on Halloween last year, they put her in the hospital for 3 days, she came home, had to wait a week before they told her anything, eventually they said she had fractured her hip, waited another week until they could bring her back in to look at her for pain, kept her 3 more days and found out she had broken off a piece of her hip, not a fracture. This is with the Veterans association health care, thus having been in the army. And this is all going on in the US, so to look at the two stories, they didn't have it very bad.

Edited by Morbid, 23 August 2009 - 02:13 PM.

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#6 carlotta

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 03:47 AM

A very good article in "The Economist" comparing the British and American health systems:

http://www.economist...ory_id=14259044

Excerpt:

On the most basic metric of life expectancy at birth, Britain (79.1 years) outscores America (77.8). Longevity is admittedly a crude and indirect indicator of population health. Yet a similar story emerged from a study in 2006 that used direct measures to compare the health of middle-aged people: the Americans were sicker than the English.

Another line of inquiry is to investigate how health systems perform in tackling conditions that are treatable, comparing death-rates for such illnesses among the under-75s. Britain does not emerge well from one such ranking, compiled by Ellen Nolte and Martin McKee of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Their study, published in early 2008, placed Britain 16th among 19 advanced countries (France came first). But America came last.

On the other hand, Britain scores worse than America in five-year survival rates for cancer. High-tech diagnostic equipment is less abundant: in 2007 there were, for example, 25.9 MRI scanners per million Americans compared with 8.2 in Britain. Expensive new drugs generally become widely available sooner in America than in Britain. One reason is that in Britain they are subject to a cost-benefit assessment. Although this approach has been demonised in America it merely makes explicit the rationing in any medical system through the decisions of insurers and funders.

And then there’s the question of overall cost. Even after a huge expansion of the NHS budget over the past decade, spending on health care in Britain amounted to 8.4% of GDP in 2007 compared with 16% in America, according to the OECD. Public spending on health care per person is actually higher in America (through Medicare, Medicaid and other government programmes).

Both health systems have their virtues and their faults. At its best, America offers extraordinarily good clinical care, but too many people lack insurance cover or fret about losing it. The NHS provides health care to all at a much lower total cost, but patients have less clout. Both countries are crying out for reforms to bring about better and cheaper care.
Who owns the land? Only the land knows. We mortals are passersby, and our lives are but a brief moment in the great span of time and space. We are born, we live out our lives, and most of us do the best we can with it, but the wind is forever, and the rivers flow forever to the sea, and all the seasons of the weathers will come and go after we are gone. But the Earth endures, the Earth is eternal" - Earl Hamner




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