28 replies to this topic

[CaveRat2]

creepyjon, on 18 July 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

LOL I swear all the time, so refraining myself while ghost hunting just doesn't happen. Then again I don't do private homes either, if I was doing that I would try very hard to keep it down to one or two f bombs a night. Doing it on cue for camera to trump up the show is crap, but if it's just the normal way a person communicates it's not acting. When something happens I get excited, and go hey what the ---- go move this way there's something over here, not oh lets run away from the scary noise saying bad words because the ghost scared us. I don't get scared, but when you are really into it and into the moment, the nice filter on you mouth sometimes gets broken.

Agree, we all drop an F-Bomb from time to time. And I was referring to working with client cases where it just isn't appropriate to swear every time something happens. It implies the surprise factor has gotten to you, and as an investigator, your client expects you to have a handle on what is going on (even if you don't!). Swearing in front of a client inspires the same confidence in you as you would have in your surgeon if, when he opened you up, said, "Wow, I never saw one like THAT before!".

And the TV guys? By the fact they are on TV and in front of all their viewers, I would expect them to display a higher level of confidence than I would your local investigator out only with his group on a Saturday night.. Their actions give us all a bad reputation, something this field certainly doesn't need these days! .

[White Witch]

I do agree though there is too much swearing everywhere in life and really isn't needed on TV. They should be mindful but you can get carried away.

[powries]

Hi All:

All I can say to those investagitors that are leaving groups & shows is "RUN DUDE RUN". Time to leave all the hype and get back to your roots.

Powries

[White Witch]

Yes get back to real investagiting. There are some days I just can't get enough spirits in my day and it would be nice to watch something without all the hype.

[White Witch]

Is it possible that investigators that have been in the feild for some time become cynical or jaded? Does it seem at times that investigators can't get along? eg: The person who needs the spot light and doesn't like it taken from them.

[White Witch]

No replies...hmmm

[powries]

Hi All:

White Witch to your questions -- yes investigators do become jaded over a period of time, you can see it,and yes you will have personal conflicts within the group,and yes there are the investigators that want all the glory. If this is a group it would be a group I would stay away from. So to start with investigators are jaded - They could have other interests ,could have personal conflicts at home,and just maybe don't care about their group anymore. Second conflicts with in the group. This is something you can see in the TV shows it builds and starts with so and so broke this item or why can't you coil the wire to the DVD cameras, and or you left the voice recorder where?Red flag stuff here. Third is the spotlight. After awhile I would think group members would just get tired of person after all it is a TEAM. Cowboy up and state this is a Team if you want to showboat go elsewhere. And this is what some investigators have done - leave and refocus, change up members,or start a new group. Sorry if I didn't make any sense running on only two cups of coffee and the fog and clouds aren't clearing out fast.

Powries

[White Witch]

LOL I totally understand. It's too bad that in everything that people do there is always the one person that can ruin it for everyone. I know how it feels to get sick of the spotlight type. I've put up with this most of my life.

[CaveRat2]

Many serious researchers, including myself, get tired of dealing with the same issues over and over when it comes to newbies and TV trained investigators.

To use a topic I have repeated ly dealt with, consider ghost boxes. I have posted technical descriptions, engineering issues, explained how these things are claimed to work and why these claims simply cannot hold up. I have posted research summaries that I have personally done using several of these things. I have explained audio pareidolia and how the mind can be fooled. I have done this repeatedly.in the hopes of bringing some order to this field and those wanting to do research.

So what happens? Along comes someone who asks how to use a ghost box..... How many times can I answer that question without simply throwing up my hands and walking away? Hello.... Any wonder some of us beome cynical? All that tells me is people don't read what is available. I am more than happy to debate a particular issue within this and any topic. But the basic issue has been beat to death and yet some won't take the time to read previous discussions.

Same goes for orb photos. Certainly if you have something unique, something with a characteristic about it that goes beyond what we usually see it should be posted for discussion. But by now we have all seen dust orbs and should be able to compare them. Yet we still keep getting the same . Why? Are some so wanting to see something they are willing to stretch every dust orb into something paranormal? I for one am tired of posting the same response: "It's dust", then following with the same explanation as to why that is true.

I don't really believe serious investigators are leaving the field. Rather they are just getting fed up with the direction this field is going and are leaving the amateurs to their own devices. They are hoping that some who really don't consider what they observe will eventually tire of this and move on to something else.

Now I'll get off my soapbox.....

[TheresaRHPS]

White Witch, on 20 June 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

I'm interested to know what Ghostvillagers think on the following subject.

Paranormal investigators who leave popular programs then make claims of staging findings for ratings.

Is there anyone in particular you have in mind? There are only two cases that I remember someone leaving a show and explicitly claiming a basis on fraud. In one of those, the show in question was MH, and what was reported didn't shock anyone who had actually taken the time to watch even a single episode of that show, lol. But as stated...like many shows, ratings were first and foremost, and although there were a few people with a background in the paranormal or parapsychology, the lead host was an actress.

I vaguely remember another incident from another show and I believe the person making claims there left on negative terms, with not a lot of public detail as to exactly what went wrong. It is possible that claims of fraud were falsely made in retaliation, or that there actually WAS something going on. Again, this was a show where ratings were king...people want to be entertained. They want to be shocked, and they want the hope that they too can easily find a "ghost" if they simply go out and look for one.

In order to be this entertaining enterprise, there are plenty of production techniques that make what is normally a boring investigation exciting. If you read Ryan Buell's book, he even states how producers sort of twisted things around and took footage and statements out of context for shock value...and I think that's why most long-term researchers don't want the responsibility of a weekly show-- that and the idea where it becomes a need to consistently produce fantastic results. That need is generally what leads to this claims of fraud, as even the most legit folks in the field will bend to the pressures.

Luckily, I do think outright fraud is fairly low, but unfortunately, its replaced by shoddy investigation techniques, a lack of critical thinking skills, and misleading production tricks. Either way, I hang my head in shame as an investigator when I hear about groups or individuals whose soul knowledge of this field comes from what they've seen on television.

[TheresaRHPS]

White Witch, on 27 July 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Is it possible that investigators that have been in the feild for some time become cynical or jaded? Does it seem at times that investigators can't get along? eg: The person who needs the spot light and doesn't like it taken from them.

I have been studying the paranormal literally all my life, lol. It was a great interest to my grandparents and my grandpa would take me on mini "ghost hunts" when I was small. While in elementary school, most girls my age were reading The Babysitter's Club books; I was reading Hans Holzer, lol. I read everything I could get my hands on, watched anything I could on TV, and when I got a computer with internet in 1997, was in heaven at the vast amounts of knowledge out there. By 14 I had a camera and a cassette recorder and was doing my own investigations at the cemetery behind my house.

I've been with my current group since September 2006, a month after it was created. In addition to investigations and serving as the group's Historic Research Manager, I'm also a tour guide for our group's tour business, run my own website on local hauntings, do consultation work for other groups, and have written my own book, due out at the end of the month. There's not a day that goes by that I'm not involved in something having to do with the paranormal, even if its just something as simple as responding to emails or posting on forums like this one.

So yes...I believe investigators and researchers who have spent a great deal of time in this field do become jaded and cynical, lol!

As someone who has studied both the science and the folklore behind this field, it is frustrating to see people try to pop in this field with little to no understanding of basic concepts. I know that in many venues, we're not dealing with researchers or investigators, but the general public...but its still jading to have to answer the same questions over and over again when a simple scroll down the page gives one ample information. I've tried to be nice and support education, but its hard, lol. I've seen on other forums I'm a member of that people will just get downright nasty, especially with the orbs, lol.

Its further frustrating to see those with such little experience, and so little knowledge of the field "make it big." I'm not in this field for fame or glory, and have myself shied out of a television appearance. I'm in this field to both help others and find my own answers, but its human nature to be a little jealous of those who luck into opportunities when you've worked so hard for so long.

As for investigators not getting along...this is a dynamic field with very little absolutes. When you get more than one strong-willed person on a team, there are going to be disagreements, and if a compromise cannot be met, it will rip that team apart. I've witnessed it 100 times, as other local groups pop up, disappear, reappear as two separate groups, and drama gets spewed. I like the analogy of ghost hunting being a religion, with different sects breaking off, and then separate congregations, each with its own way of doing things and beliefs break off from there. It's sad, and its a blight on this field. We don't all have to agree all the time, but we need to learn to at least be civil and keep grudges away from the public eye.

[White Witch]

CaveRat2, on 07 August 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Many serious researchers, including myself, get tired of dealing with the same issues over and over when it comes to newbies and TV trained investigators.

To use a topic I have repeated ly dealt with, consider ghost boxes. I have posted technical descriptions, engineering issues, explained how these things are claimed to work and why these claims simply cannot hold up. I have posted research summaries that I have personally done using several of these things. I have explained audio pareidolia and how the mind can be fooled. I have done this repeatedly.in the hopes of bringing some order to this field and those wanting to do research.

So what happens? Along comes someone who asks how to use a ghost box..... How many times can I answer that question without simply throwing up my hands and walking away? Hello.... Any wonder some of us beome cynical? All that tells me is people don't read what is available. I am more than happy to debate a particular issue within this and any topic. But the basic issue has been beat to death and yet some won't take the time to read previous discussions.

Same goes for orb photos. Certainly if you have something unique, something with a characteristic about it that goes beyond what we usually see it should be posted for discussion. But by now we have all seen dust orbs and should be able to compare them. Yet we still keep getting the same . Why? Are some so wanting to see something they are willing to stretch every dust orb into something paranormal? I for one am tired of posting the same response: "It's dust", then following with the same explanation as to why that is true.

I don't really believe serious investigators are leaving the field. Rather they are just getting fed up with the direction this field is going and are leaving the amateurs to their own devices. They are hoping that some who really don't consider what they observe will eventually tire of this and move on to something else.

Now I'll get off my soapbox.....

I can understand your point fully though you were a NEWBIE at one time also. Given the nature of this site you will ALWAYS have NEWBIES. My thought is simple but oh well. This is like an adult that forgets that they were once a child. In some cases you need to place yourself back where you started. If replying to the same old questions bothers you then I would say it's time to step back, have someone else reply. Not everyone reads the boards before posting, I've done the same thing. Regardless of knowledge we have all come here to express ourselves without being mocked. It's not easy when you have experiences that others don't. This site makes you not feel so different and you are accepted.

TheresaRHPS I agree. I don't believe all paranormal programs fake everything.

[CaveRat2]

White Witch, on 09 August 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

....

I can understand your point fully though you were a NEWBIE at one time also. Given the nature of this site you will ALWAYS have NEWBIES. My thought is simple but oh well. This is like an adult that forgets that they were once a child. In some cases you need to place yourself back where you started. If replying to the same old questions bothers you then I would say it's time to step back, have someone else reply. Not everyone reads the boards before posting, I've done the same thing. Regardless of knowledge we have all come here to express ourselves without being mocked. It's not easy when you have experiences that others don't. This site makes you not feel so different and you are accepted.

TheresaRHPS I agree. I don't believe all paranormal programs fake everything.

I actually agree and on many ocassions have done exactly that; just let some posts ride and let someone else deal with them. And yes, we have all not read through the entire forum before asking a question, thus some topics will come up again sometimes. But it becomes a matter of frequency. Once in a while, or with something that is not that common one can expect this. It may actually be good to refresh some topics once in a while. But when it comes to other topics they are hashed and rehashed several times in the course of a few months. Those are the ones I refer to. ( How many dust orb pictures are on here?)

[White Witch]

I don't know but I don't mind looking at them actually. Through all that dust we could be missing something else that might be there. Sometimes you have to look further and it pays off. On the other hand sometimes it doesn't.