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Never bet the devil your head


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#46 spooksareus

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 11:20 AM

It is not a question of forgivness Dave.
It is a question of whether a thing is evil.
If I were to forgive a rapist of raping me
it does not make the act less evil.
How do people who can't feel remorse
ask for forgiveness? what for?
Are you saying that evil does not exist?
According to some religions, Hitler
is eternally damned for commiting suicide
if not for his atrocities.

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#47 evad_83647

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 01:00 PM

You should read the suicide thread here Spooks. lol

How can you know what is going on inside a persons head? I still say it is a matter of perception. There were a whole lot of people who joined with Hitler and Stalin were Germany and Russia also evil? If Germany had won the war and ruled the whole world we would be subjected to atrocities but we would consider them normal after a few generations have passed.

Look how Afghanistan was under the Taliban. Women were treated even worse than the men. They were following their religious doctrine but would use fear and intimidation and even rape and humiliation to get people to toe the line. And they were doing this in the name of religion so everyone could go to heaven. In other words they were doing it for the future of their people.
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#48 aloha_spirit

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 01:15 PM

In the Latin languages, to repent means to change. Even today it's used in a non-religious context for you'll be sorry or I changed my mind.

I agree that evil doesn't recognize the bad of its actions, doesn't feel remorse for what it's done.

Our sense of right and wrong (plus our restraint) is normally located on a certain spot of our brain; if that spot is damaged we feel no inhibitions.

My religion teaches that to sin is to do something what you know to be against the will of Deity. If a person can't tell the difference between good and evil they can't sin.

I didn't lose my mind - I have it backed up on a disk ... somewhere


#49 spooksareus

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 01:34 PM

I've writen in the suicide thread Dave :ghost:
I am sure you have an unsderstanding about how
I feel about suicide. I was merely pointing out an
irony.
If you have followed any of the lives of serial killers
like BtK or or the Green river killer you know that those
guys don't even know what remorse is.
there are loads of murderers who do feel remorse for
having taken another life and I do not consider them evil
although the deed is.
As for killers who only feel remorse that they were caught :whoohoo:

evil adj 1: wicked; morallybad or wrong 2: causing or threatening distress or harm: pernicious-evil.ly adv
evil n 1: sin; the quality of being morally bad or wrong 2: a source of sorrow or distress : calamity

Surely there are and have been people who have fit the bill....

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#50 evad_83647

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 01:40 PM

The worst person I can think of is Manson. He seemed to get a lot of pleasure out of his deeds. He says if released he would continued to do what he did before he was caught. But to use Aloha's analogy, I think he is missing some connections in his brain that recognize the good-evil.
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#51 spooksareus

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 01:42 PM

:whoohoo: :ghost: Exactly!
That is the whole crux of the thread... :hug:

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#52 evad_83647

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 01:47 PM

I had a friend who was an autograph collector. He would routinely write to Charles Manson and others primarily to get their autograph but he would have coversations with them through his letters. They would write back and express their views freely. And answer directely his pointed questions.

I've read some of those letters. Most imply the world just doesnt understand them.
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#53 spooksareus

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 02:46 PM

classic malignant narcissism trait :whoohoo:

You'll have to excuse me, I was raised by a bunch
of lawyers and psychiatrists. (lots of parents everywhere)
The people you meet through them I tell ya'.... :ghost:

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#54 evad_83647

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 03:58 AM

Ok I have one for you. The United way. It was an organization created for good right?

The United Way takes 60 percent of your hard earned dollars which you sleflessly donate to line the pockets of their administrators and pay for advertising. (I don't know if the sixy percernt is still a valid figure, it was a few years ago). The United Way is an organization which takes your donation and gives it to the organization you specify. It doesn't do the charity work itself. Let's say you gave 10.00 to the Untied Way for them to give to the Red Cross. The United Way gets six dollars for the privledge of handing it to the Red Cross. The Red Cross gets four dollars. That sounds pretty evil to me, you give selflessy to help someone less fortunate and 60% of what you donate goes to those who don't need it.

Lets follow this trail of where your ten dollars ends up. Well the Red Cross has paid administrators, where do you think their paychecks come from. Several years ago the Red Cross was listed as the worst charity to donate to because 97 per cent of your donations went to pay over head. The March of Dimes was the Best at 60%. This was several years ago and all of these organizations have been under extensive pressure to do better. I think the last figure I heard about the Red Cross was 90 of what you donate goes to overhead. If anyone has a better figure I'm all ears, this was also a few years ago when I saw this figure. Let's give them the benifit of the doubt. They got their overhead cost down to 80%.

This means of your ten dollars you donated for say Hurricane Katrina victims through United Way, 4 dollars made it to the Red Cross and the Red Cross absorbed 80% of the 4.00 so eighty cents of your ten dollars actually was used to help the victims. That is evil.

It gets even worse. If the Red Cross is helping overseas victims like say from the sunami last year, they have to bribe local government officials to even let them bring in aid so even less of your hard earned dollars are going to the cause you selflessly sent your hard earned dollars to help. If you donate directly to the Red Cross it is only about 3 cents on the dollar (for Sunami Victims) that actually get to where you wanted it to go. If you donate through United Way even less money goes to the victims.

I do not have recent figures, these figures were only used for expamle but I'll bet you find I'm pretty close if you decide to investigate it. I have nothing at all against the Red Cross. They are a good organization and the volunteers who work for them are great people. I do have a problem with the managers who are usually rich to start with drawing six figure salaries when people who have limited resources are donating their own time and money to help. Tell me this isn't evil. Can you think of anything worse than stealing from the victims of a tragedy like this? And stealing from those reaching out to help? All in the name and guise that you are helping these people.

Have you ever got a phone call looking for donations to help police widows, or firefighter widows fund? The peole calling will contact the local firefighter or police organizationa and tell them we will give you 30,000 dollars to your widow org. What self respecting fireman or policeman wouldn't want his wife to be taken care of in the event of the unthinkable. Of course they will accept the donation.

This gives the company giving the donation the right to call you and ask for a donation from you. So far so good. Only the company doesn't stop at the 30,000 dollars it promised the widows org. It collects a million or two or whatever you are willing to give. It is free to keep everything over the 30k promised. Does this sound evil?
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#55 spooksareus

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 12:07 PM

ah, so you have taken to recognizining evil in the world :)
:weeee: this is good :)

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#56 evad_83647

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 12:59 PM

No. lol

I don't believe that the leaders of the Red Cross have evil intent, or the other charity orgs. Just that they see they can help themselves while they help others. I just think they are benifiting a little too much. It is the same power and greed that draws those with hurtful intentions. I only put it here for an example (though it is a pet peeve of mine).

Once I started I kinda got off on a rant. lol

The non-profit I ran was truly a non-profit, I donated my time and money and energy. So did the other members of the board. We recieved no compensation. (except the tax benifits Uncle Sam was willing to bestow on us). We did it for the good of humanity, not what it could do for us. That was also the reason for it's downfall. We didn't have enough time to put into it to run it properly because we had to get our money to live on from other places.

There has to be a balance where the the non-profit can help you and you can help it. We didn't have it and the Red Cross doesn't have it.
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#57 spooksareus

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 01:28 PM

Dave my friend,
now you have opened up the discussion to group evil.

So what is it that drives some good people who would never do
a greedy or violent action alone to do dispicable acts in a group?
Can a group of inividuals take on one nasty personality?

Look at ENRON or Miylai for extreme examples of group evil.

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#58 evad_83647

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 12:22 AM

Spooks you are giving me a headache. LOL

Goes back to leaders and followers. A lot of people followed Hitler in the thirties without the threats and fear because he promised them a better tommorow. lol
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#59 spooksareus

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 12:00 PM

He lied didn't he.
The majority were misinformed and ignorant
of their furors motives.
Some of Hitlers favorite sayings were-
"How fortunate for leaders that men do not think. "
and
"What luck for rulers, that men do not think.
and
"The broad masses of a population are more amenable
to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force. "
and
"The great masses of the people will more easily fall
victims to a big lie than to a small one. "

This clearly was a man who didn't believe his horse****!

True leaders don't feel such contempt for the people they lead....

Edited by spooksareus, 30 January 2006 - 12:02 PM.

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#60 spooksareus

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 12:46 PM

And here is an oldie but a goodie by Stalin
"Death solves all problems, no man, no problem."
now theres a man who understood leadership, eh? :clap:

Edited by spooksareus, 30 January 2006 - 12:47 PM.

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”





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