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Never bet the devil your head


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#61 evad_83647

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 04:18 AM

I think I heard somewhere tha Stalin was suspected of having multiple personality disorder. Don't quote me, just my flawed memory trying to recall stuff about him.

How about Henry the 8th, he was a quite likable little fellow. Or Napoleon, or Julius, or Tiberious, or Atilla?

I think people who think their is true evil forget where we come from. We come from a long line of evil madmen. I am pretty sure you can trace it back to the earliest days of recorded history and if you can read cave drawings you will find it there too. Even Eve coerced Adam to eat the forbidden fruit.

So this would imply all women are evil. lol Sorry Spooks just following that idea to a logical conclusion.

We killed of most of the Buffalo for sport and their hides. It was ok to kill an indian because he was a savage. It was also ok to rape the indian women and slave women because they were lesser humans. It appears to me that the accepted norms you grew up in decided what was evil and what was not. We can look at present day Sudan and other African countries to see their norm is not what we consider normal.

We can also look at Indonesea and the Phillipines and Las Vegas where sex is industrialized. To many it would be great sins, to others just a way of life.

OK I'm tired and my mind is drifting ino other realms. Hey,I just found out we have a ghost where I work. Give me a break. I didn't feel any presence before but now I get the shivers. lol
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#62 spooksareus

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 12:14 PM

All that shows is that ignorence is the greatest tool used
for evil.
I have not forgotten that we come from a long line of
"madmen". We also come from a long line a good and
decent people who eventually can show us the evil of
these acts.
When we look back at the lynching of blacks in in the
south, we recognize it as an evil act although it was a
norm at the time.
Racism is an evil.
Killing off a species for fun is an evil.
Oppression of a people is evil.
Whether or not evil acts are the "norm" in a certain place or
not doesn't make it not evil.
There is no logic in what you say about Eve at all,
after all she was duped by the devil himself, quite a
likable little fellow indeed. (he promised her a better
tomarrow, lol!)
Are you saying that all women are eve?
Likability is not the way to gage whether or not a
person is evil or has done evil.
One of the most freaky traights about sociopaths and
malignant narcissists is their ability to be likable to
most people. Charisma should not be confused with
good...

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#63 evad_83647

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 01:14 PM

Evil is all in your head. Your perception of what is evil may not be my perception of what is evil. Just as your perception of ghosts and mine may differ.

Just because I see something as black doesn't mean you can't see it as white. or any shade in between.

I tend to agree with you that most people in history who have participated in, or ordered mass killings seemed to have some kind of mental disability. Or is it normal to have unreasonable fear and super egos and we are the minority?
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#64 MoonChild

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 01:21 PM

Pure Evil - as I see it - is in the choice humans make.
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#65 spooksareus

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 03:28 PM

Evil is all in your head. Your perception of what is evil may not be my perception of what is evil. Just as your perception of ghosts and mine may differ.

Just because I see something as black doesn't mean you can't see it as white. or any shade in between.

I tend to agree with you that most people in history who have participated in, or ordered mass killings seemed to have some kind of mental disability. Or is it normal to have unreasonable fear and super egos and we are the minority?


"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#66 spooksareus

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 03:49 PM

Not if you read the defininition of evil.
It is what it is.
I don't see any point in arguing symantics.
After all there is no point in discussing anything
at all if we cant even agree to use words
as the dictionary defines them.
Is an ape an ape or a banana?
Evil is in my mind certainly, but it also exists elsewhere
in the world.
There is a line from the from the movie The Usual Suspects
I like that goes: (paraphrasing)
" The best trick the devil played on humanity, was to convince
them he doesn't exist...

Also these are classified as personality disorders
not mental disabilities. ;)

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#67 evad_83647

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 03:52 PM

e·vil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vl)
adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est
Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.

n.
The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
An evil force, power, or personification.
Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.

adv. Archaic
In an evil manner.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, from Old English yfel. See wap- in Indo-European Roots.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
evil·ly adv.
evil·ness n.

[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


evil

adj 1: morally bad or wrong; "evil purposes"; "an evil influence"; "evil deeds" [syn: wicked] [ant: good] 2: having the nature of vice [syn: depraved, vicious] 3: tending to cause great harm [syn: harmful, injurious] 4: having or exerting a malignant influence; "malevolent stars"; "a malefic force" [syn: malefic, malevolent, malign] n 1: morally objectionable behavior [syn: immorality, wickedness, iniquity] 2: that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune; "the evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones"- Shakespeare 3: the quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice; "attempts to explain the origin of evil in the world" [syn: evilness] [ant: good]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


evil




Do you notice how everything starts with morally? What are your morals? That is subjective not absolute.
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#68 evad_83647

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 04:45 PM

In my humble opinion Evil is an excuse. It is away to avoid accepting responsibility for ones acts.

"The Devil made me do it!"

For there to be evil this imlpies there has to be a god and a anti-god. A whole nother subject. lol

I am the proverbial fence sitter, people do bad things that causes hurt to others, Why just yesterday I was at the dentist... He caused me pain but swore it was in my best interest. lol Does this make him evil? At the time he was. Complete with the horns and cackling laughter.

I am not trying to argue semantics, all I am trying to do is point out evil is only what you consider evil to be. Not what me, or Moon, or Aloha think it is or isn't. (sorry for dropping your names guys).

Oh and to answer your question about ape or banana, if we are what we eat and the ape ate banana's he is definatley a banana.

Edited by evad_83647, 31 January 2006 - 04:47 PM.

Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#69 spooksareus

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 04:58 PM

Are trying to tell me that evil is only a theory and doesn't really exist at all?
What are your morals?
What about "that which causes harm"?
I certainly know that hanging a person for being black is causing much harm.
I can find no better definition for killing people you don't know out of racial
hatred or in order to rob them, or to keep them from tattling on you is causing
harm.
I am not saying that a person who unknowingly or accidentally causes harm
is evil. However if they cannot find it within themselves to appologize
for causing the harm they may well be.
In any case I brought this thread up precisely because I am curious if
evil can be "scientifically" proven as perhaps a disease of the human pysche.
There are people who defy the morals of all civilizations due to their particular
"disorders".
I am not at all comfortable with keeping a blind eye to those who commit atrocities
simply because evil appears abstract or philosophically subjective.
We can't have any society without an understanding of right or wrong.
More subjective stuff you say?
Raping children is evil, stealing the life savings of a little old lady is evil.
Even if you want to say that on some other planet these things are the norm,
you can't tell me that in the western culture these things are not accepted as morally
wrong.
You've brought up the mores of other cultures, so let's just say that killing a virgin
sacrificailly is a great honor in some cultures. It is only an honor to the virgin if she
agrees. If she doesn't agree, it has become an evil act done to her person.
It is the victimization of people by other people that perpetuates evil.
Subjecting your will onto another and doing them harm for personal gain is an evil act.


In my humble opinion Evil is an excuse. It is away to avoid accepting responsibility for ones acts.

"The Devil made me do it!"

For there to be evil this imlpies there has to be a god and a anti-god. A whole nother subject. lol

I am the proverbial fence sitter, people do bad things that causes hurt to others, Why just yesterday I was at the dentist... He caused me pain but swore it was in my best interest. lol Does this make him evil? At the time he was. Complete with the horns and cackling laughter.

I am not trying to argue semantics, all I am trying to do is point out evil is only what you consider evil to be. Not what me, or Moon, or Aloha think it is or isn't. (sorry for dropping your names guys).

Oh and to answer your question about ape or banana, if we are what we eat and the ape ate banana's he is definatley a banana.


Davey... :Spaz: ;) :hug:

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#70 leslie_dragonlvr

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 01:12 AM

One day folks, one day. We will be able to understand this question, but not until then.
But then again, how can we, when everyone sees things differently. You all have very good points of theory. I no longer go by what a book tells me. Books in many cases are what we are taught to believe from day one. The control factor again, humans controling how we should think, not what is really there or not.
I do believe that evil is a title for something we can not understand or control in a person. I do feel these mental disorders continue after death in some cases, and even into their next life, if they return.
Some who have made bad choices in their past lives, have the chance to change something they did or appologise to those they may have harmed. It's late, I'll tell the rest of what I'm getting into tomorrow if yu like. It has to do with a life my daughter had and her trip to Germany last summer.
;)
Leslie
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#71 evad_83647

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 03:25 AM

I'm interested Leslie. You brought up a key point. We are taught a certain way, our teaching reflect our beliefs.

It may look like Spooks and I are at each others throats but we are just having fun, we go way back, at least two or three weeks. lol Actually we are twins with different mothers, born four years apart.

This is a serious subject though and I like to examine all sides of anything. You mentioned books. Books are slanted by the authors beliefs even if he or she thinks they are just telling the facts. I don't give up on books but I definately try to get others points of view. I am an author so I can tell you when I write something I'm trying to sell you something. I particularliy like this thread because it is interesting and we have had some interesting discussion in it. I see others veiwpoints that I could never have imagined.

Spooks I still love ya. 27 in multiples of three.
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#72 MaryKelly

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 04:42 AM

I've been reading this thread for a few days, thinking on it and still am. The original question being "Has anyone here looked pure evil in the eye?" Excluding my ex-boyfriend whom I like to refer to as "Evil Incarnate ;) "? Just kidding :P ... I'll be back after some more thought on the subject. Everyone here post's such thought provoking topic's and discusses them in such a friendly manner, I'd just like to say it's great to see you can voice your opinion's without fighting. :)

oft'time when I'm sad at heart this flow'r has giv'n me joy;So while life does remain in memoriam I'll retain,This small violet I pluck'd from mother's grave

#73 spooksareus

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 11:14 AM

This has been a fun thread for me,
and i have especially enjoyed playing....
Devils advocate :Wall: sorry, I couldn't
help it.
Love ya too Mr. Ryan :hug:
Carry on in the face of evil :Spaz: :Spaz: :Spaz:
So glad to see more faces on here,
Spooks.... :Spaz:

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#74 evad_83647

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 01:15 PM

You are right about the original question. "Has anyone looked pure evil in the eye?" I've been dancing around that trying to figure out what pure evil really is.

I've met people in my life whom I thought were a total waste of a good soul and had to wonder about the darker side. Then they suprise the heck out of you.

I am of the "recently formed" opinion that there are not really "truly evil" people in the world. I always beliveved in the basic goodness of humanity and this thread has done nothing but to enforce that belief.

Yes people do bad things, yes people are greedy, yes there are varying degrees of what people will do to get what they want. In the end Hitler married Ava just before they commited suicide. That shows compassion and careing for his fellow man.

Charles Manson is the one whom I would consider to be truly evil if there is such a thing. He enjoyed what he did and says he would continue to do it if he were free. Let's look a little closer, he was into very hard drugs, LSD etc. I think he fried most of his brain cells and the only thing he has left is his lizard brain.

I have looked into the eyes of someone who has taken one too many LSD trips, there is no consience behind the eyes. The lizard brain pushes them to do whatever they must to get that next fix, because that is all they live for now. The next high. Alcoholics also fall into the same category though not as extreme.

I have looked into the eyes of many souls and none would I say have I looked into the eyes of pure evil. Except maybe my dentist, he enjoys his job way too much. lol
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#75 MoonChild

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 01:18 PM

It is all relative in life, ain't it?
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