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Where is the Soul?


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#16 Iam

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 03:19 AM

Prometheus:

I will get back with you on your above post, you do have some valid points, but leave room for debate, I just need to prepare my statement as not to offend others about the NDE, or religious aspect of this.
I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.

#17 Holly

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 06:22 AM

I guess that to asnswer this question, we would have to know for sure what the soul does exactly..

Some here seem to think it offers personality - others have mentioned emotions. I had never thought of those two things before regarding the soul.

I think the soul is our essence, and actually am not entirely sure it even exists as we know it. I've always thought of the "soul" as our mentality, and so, yes, in that case, I believe it would return when we are revived.

We're speaking of cryogenics in this thread, but remember: there are people who are clinically dead for several minutes and they are revived. Does the 'soul' hang around that long to see if the person will be saved? I think it does, because I think our 'soul' is us. It is who we are. I don't believe its tangible.
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#18 aloha_spirit

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 06:20 PM

The ancient Hebrews believed that the soul hung around for 3 days after death before moving on. That was one of the reasons Jesus delayed raising Lazarus from the dead, and why Jesus being in the tomb for 3 days before his own resurrection is so important (hint: Jesus wasn't crucified on a Friday).

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#19 spooksareus

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 12:22 AM

LOL@Spook.....

Some good replies, and Dead Watch you did leave a very viable statement. None of us will ever know what happens when we die until we take that journey. But, I am of opinion that, if one comes back from this state, THERE will be no soul nor any form of healthy thought process to base this new entities values on...Simple....Zombie state, perhaps,

Or Perhaps, there are walk-in spirits already waiting in these so called halls who have claimed these type bodies.......Hmmmmmm!!!



Lol! I know a few! :blush:

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#20 Iam

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 12:51 AM

You all have made valid points, however, I am not convinced that the soul will linger on and wait for the body to be brought back to life, it does have better things to do than wait around for man in his so called wisdom will even be able to bring this to fruitation.

Edited by Iam, 31 July 2006 - 12:52 AM.

I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.

#21 Mr Eamcat

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 06:37 AM

Good topic Iam - thanks.

I'm fairly certain that the soul flits away pretty soon after death.

But if one day a person is brought back to life, I can't get the idea of a souless zombie out of my head.

I don't see how we can suddenly gain another soul to replace a lost one, but if that does happen, it may teach us more to the nature of the universe than we know.

#22 jakob493

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 04:29 PM

Fascinating topic, Iam. Thanks for posting.

First, I will state my beliefs on what I think of as the soul.

Think about this. What is a thought? A thought is an electrical impulse, created by the cerebral cortex of the brain contracting, correct? Put this through a transitive property, and you could state that a thought = energy. Using Einstein as a reference, energy cannot be created, nor destroyed. The energy used in thinking a thought, had obviously been transferred from somewhere first, in another state, and once thought, this energy again changes state, possibly into the ethereal plane as a "physical" material. So, using that logic, a thought cannot be destroyed, once thought. So that means, all this energy has to be collected somewhere. I believe this is what the soul is, simply a compilation of all your thoughts, energies, etc. that pile into your form of existance. Your personality. Its what makes you, you. Simply put, your soul IS you, but your physical body is simply a sac of water and carbon that CREATED your soul through thinking, as well as keeping up the forever changing structure of your soul.

If a person was awakened after being cryogenically frozen, I dont think the soul will have stuck around to see what happens. I think once the body will have awakened, it will be really slow, and very confused, really only running off of the basic instincts set into our minds in the cerebellum. After a while, through rehabilitation, it will being to "think" again, with the cerebrum, therefore creating another soul, possibly an entirely different personality than the "original" soul.

I dont find cryogenics to be morally correct, but I guess its happening anyway. I would love to hear any other thoughts on my theories, while you're here :clap:

#23 Iam

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 11:25 PM

I agree with you, Jakob!! No soul is going to stay around, tap its feet and say "Lets get busy folks with this cancer ridden body"
I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.

#24 spooksareus

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 11:21 AM

There are some very interesting cases of NDE where the person had changed so drastically that their family members refused to believe it was their loved one at all :weeee: but instead a spirit or (as some came to believe) demon had taken over the body!

I am (of course) perfectly aware of the queer changes a personality can take on due to brain damage, however I still find this “walk in” spirit an intriguing idea.

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#25 Iam

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 02:55 PM

Spook:

Heres a site that explains the walk-in experience, although I do have a book that explains this in depth, and has given me food for thought. I believe anything is possible, but am still weary of a person who has been frozen in time awaiting a new birth so to speak, but the womb being a cylinder of chemicals. I am almost sure that the original soul would not wait around to jump back into a deseased ridden body.http://www.greatdreams.com/walkhow.htm
I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.

#26 feusurlaneige

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 02:33 AM

I think soul is just another word for the spirit.

It is true that it is the essence of a person but the essence of a person is what makes them who they are. Its their thoughts and their emotions and all the good and bad things they believe in. It is their vices and their beliefs and their virtues. The soul or spirit is an energy that creates energy.

This is how the soul is in a body but when the body dies it transforms in many ways.

#27 spooksareus

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 01:14 PM

Spook:

Heres a site that explains the walk-in experience, although I do have a book that explains this in depth, and has given me food for thought. I believe anything is possible, but am still weary of a person who has been frozen in time awaiting a new birth so to speak, but the womb being a cylinder of chemicals. I am almost sure that the original soul would not wait around to jump back into a deseased ridden body.http://www.greatdreams.com/walkhow.htm


Thanks darlin'! I'll go look at it right now.

I personally don't see a spirit hanging around in a frozen body myself, the thought of it is just to abhorrent although it could be possible, but yuck :hug: .
I can however picture a spirit being tethered to a brain damaged body and being frustrated that they can't entirely move on.
This is the question I always pose when a person is in a brain dead or vegitative state caused by a traumatic accident.

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#28 Iam

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 01:18 AM

Your Welcome Spooks:

Always willing to find anything for you...:)..Enjoy the article, gives one food for thought...
I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.

#29 bardo

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 08:13 PM

When you die the soul leaves the body.
This person is dead therefore the soul is gone.
The question is will the soul come back to that body if they were successfull in bringing them back?
As the soul can be gone for many years before it decides to come back as time is different on other planes.
The soul can exist outside of the physical body and it makes connections not only to the other lifetimes of the person it has departed but to all other souls.
The soul is indestructable and immortal.
The soul is timeless.
Some think of the soul as a body of energy that blends with universal energy, then splits off again,intact, when it returns to another life.
When the time comes the only way this frozen person could live again in my opinion is by cloning.
Now the question is ,is a cloned person a new human being?
I think they are ,so they would not likely get the same soul.
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#30 Iam

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:26 PM

Actually, Bardo, the concept behind this is to un-thaw the original body to a state that can be cured of the desease that was killing it in the first place. Same body!!
I am not advocating a morality based on evolution. I am saying how things have evolved. I am not saying how we humans morally ought to behave. Let us try to teach generosity and altruism, because we are born selfish. Let us understand what our own selfish genes are up to, because we may then at least have a chance to upset their designs, something that no other species has ever aspired to do.




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