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Skeptic Vs Believers?


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#31 BellaRose

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 01:16 PM

Hi Guys!
Here's my 6 CENTS...
Something to ponder:

Millions of people all over the world have reported encounters with ghosts. :lol:
But traditional science regards ghosts as something imaginary at best, delusional at worst, and believes countless witnesses as having NO credibility.
Yet a single eyewitness to a crime is sometimes sufficent to convict a suspect. It's a strange contradiction. The fact that we cannot "prove" many paranormal experiences doesn't mean they should be disregarded as folly and foolishness.

~Bellarose :hug:

Edited by BellaRose, 15 February 2007 - 01:18 PM.


#32 thesameones

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 05:04 PM

L.o.l.. Lance, I am skeptical where science is concerned. If science is a God it is a fallen God. Look back through history at all the blunders and all the retractions science has owernership of. Most certainly science is good. The persuite of knowledge and advancement is always good. It only is what it is though, and it is flawed, just as we who persue it are flawed. I think there are too many people who should challenge science more and the possibility of being a spiritial being less. Leave it to me to be the square peg. L.o.l..

Good thought provoking conversation piece. Thanks for posting it.

#33 thesameones

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 05:16 PM

:Spaz:

On target Canuck! Fantastic contribution from my perspective!

:ghost:

#34 evad_83647

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 02:27 AM

Everyone is bringing some good points to the discussion. I am skeptical whenever humans are involved. lol

Yes humans are flawed, yes science has declared something to be fact and then retracted, so has the church. lol

The pursuit of knowledge is what intrigues me, how many hundreds of thousand of master and doctorate degree holders are in the world, and collectively they cannnot read all that has been written in their lifetimes. Over the centuries since man has started observing and documenting his observations we have amassed quite a collection of knowledge, and realize that during the sacking of Alexandria most of the knowledge to that point was lost and we had to start over. We laready had complex gears and mechanisms which were lost for centuries and had to be reinvented because the knowledge of them was lost.

How much other knowledge was lost, we may never know. It is beleived by some we had powered flight thousands of years before Christ. Read about the Nazca Lines. http://en.wikipedia....iki/Nazca_Lines , prehistoric airplane http://www.philipcop.../bbl_plane.html : http://www.aeroman.d...ric_flight.html

This doesn't adress ghosts but it show how little we actually know about our world.
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#35 spiritalk

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 10:18 AM

The difference between the church and science may be...only science admits and retracks. LOL

God bless, J

#36 spooksareus

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 11:50 AM

Hi Guys!
Here's my 6 CENTS...
Something to ponder:

Millions of people all over the world have reported encounters with ghosts. :P
But traditional science regards ghosts as something imaginary at best, delusional at worst, and believes countless witnesses as having NO credibility.
Yet a single eyewitness to a crime is sometimes sufficent to convict a suspect. It's a strange contradiction. The fact that we cannot "prove" many paranormal experiences doesn't mean they should be disregarded as folly and foolishness.

~Bellarose :lol:



:Spaz: :clap:

"It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about, nowadays, saying things against one behind one's back that are absolutely and entirely true." -Oscar Wilde “The Picture of Dorian Gray”


#37 Richard Kimmel

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 02:24 PM

Here's an o'l saying ... "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride".

In the case of skeptics wishing and stating that Paranormal evidence does not support the existance of spirits or ghosts, I've changed the o'l saying to be more fitting ... "If wishes were horses, SKEPTICS would ride"

Nothing derogatory is meant, just an o'l saying.

Richard

Edited by Richard Kimmel, 16 February 2007 - 02:27 PM.

"He who asserts must also prove" - Aristotle


#38 rat 1233

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 03:36 PM

as a believer i must say i side with them. but the skeptics raise some good points. now what if someone from the scientific community, highly respected, saw a spirit, apparation, orb ect. ect.
why naturally their would be a huge uproar. now compair this to the millions of sightings every week by commoners that go unnoticed. it takes the right people to see ghosts and get people to beleive. :lol:
Life is short. lets have a drink.

#39 evad_83647

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 04:27 PM

The right people have seen ghosts, UFO's whatever.

What I've been trying to point out is the lack of evidence has relegated them to folklore, until enough indisputable evidence comes forth it will continue to be folklore.

Many of our facts today arose from people researching folklore. We used to think the city of Troy was a myth or stories passed down through the ages. Now we have it on a map.

Atlantis has also gained a lot of credibilitly latey.

I encourage everyone to keep gaining more information on both sides of the fence, right now neither camp is right, nor is either camp wrong. Skeptics should be open to new information; believers should be open to the myriad of natural events that do occur which could be mistaken for ghost sightings.

Only when everyone is trying to reach the same goal and the disinformatin and beleifs are discarded... only then can we move forward. Or if someone can convince an apparition to do an interveiw on CNN.
Once I get there, there is somewhere else.Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

#40 Grim Undertakings

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 05:37 PM

I see a lot of misconceptions thrown in here. First science is studying paranormal. However it mostly low budget studies because science depends on grants to do their research.

The paranormal is not mainstream and scientists are very careful not to associate their names with something that could ruin their reputations and end funding for their "legitimate" research.

The debate going on in here is typical of any group debateing anything, I 've seen people accuse others or not wanting to do their own research. Well friends this is a community, everyone does their own research and if your willing to share what you have found great. There are millions of webpages on the paranormal and I personally do not have time to read everyone, and if you do you need to get a life. lol

We all have differing opinions on everything, and we all have different levels of experience and knowledge on most things. Some of us have been researching the paranormal for 10-20-30 years, some of us have only been doing it 10-20-30 days.

Their have been a lot of great scientists and inventors which have delved into parnormal studies. You won't see any papers from them on it because they came up with no credible proof. People with names like Einstein and Franklin. So when people say paranormal is not being taken seriously by the scientific communtity; they are flat out mistaken.

When I find something that I think is worthy enough to share with you guys I share, I am not doing your research only giving you information I have that you may not have stumbled across, you are free to do with that information anything you please. Just as I am free to use any informatin you may forward to me as I please. And just because I post a link doesn't mean I beleive the info, just that I found it interesting.

Personaly I'd like to see more respect for each other feelings in here. If we are having a debate we need to be concious of the fact that we have differing viewpoints. We need to get out of that "I'm right and you're an idiot" mindframe. There isn't anyone in this world that I can't learn something from and there isn't anyone in this world that I can't teach something to.

Dave


Well said, Dave. :)

#41 Grim Undertakings

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 05:46 PM

That said, have you tried listening to the skeptics instead of simply dismissing them as being closeminded? In all scientific fields skepticism is used to sort good research from bad research, to point out problems where bias can skew the data, and thereby forcing researchers to do their very best, and continuously better their research. Without skepticism science can't function.

That skeptics actually address the paranormal, instead of ignoring it, should be warmly welcomed, instead of the almost religious dismissal; "how dare you question my beliefs, you closeminded cynic!". If paranormal research want to be referred to as science, it needs skepticism, because without it, the research will never grow, and the results will never be viewed as anything more than unreliable.


I know we seldom agree on anything, but in this case, very well said, Plindboe! :)

#42 BellaRose

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 04:16 AM

as a believer i must say i side with them. but the skeptics raise some good points. now what if someone from the scientific community, highly respected, saw a spirit, apparation, orb ect. ect.
why naturally their would be a huge uproar. now compair this to the millions of sightings every week by commoners that go unnoticed. it takes the right people to see ghosts and get people to beleive. :duel:


Do you think someone of prominence would actually talk about or admit to such an experience (out of shame or fear of ridcule)? :ghost:

I am reading a fascinating book right now titled:
The Haunting of the Presidents - A Paranormal History of the U.S. Presidency
~Joel Martin & William J. Birnes (National Bestselling Authors)

While little has been acknowledged of the documented paranormal events that have shaken The White House for 2 centuries, there has been declassified and substantiated records from George Washington to the Clinton Adminstration.
~Bellarose :)

#43 spiritalk

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 10:40 AM

The early Psychic Societies in both Britain and the US had just this problem. The most prominent scientific minds were involved and were in a position to be discredited for their studies and conclusions.

God bless, J

#44 thesameones

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 02:58 PM

The early Psychic Societies in both Britain and the US had just this problem. The most prominent scientific minds were involved and were in a position to be discredited for their studies and conclusions.

God bless, J


They are out there, and they are researching. They're just not talking with you or me on the subject. I would imagine they do watch us though. Lab rats, l.o.l..

#45 feusurlaneige

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Posted 24 February 2007 - 07:44 PM

I think the big breakthrough will come with Quantum physics. I read somewhere that scientists studying in this department are on on the verge of a big breakthrough in proving scientifically that there are many more dimensions than the ones we know. They say it is only a couple of years away and if this is so then maybe that will be all we need. If they can prove these dimensions exist then ghosts will be the next thing.




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