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Ethical question


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#16 Holly

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 10:00 AM

I agree with the general consensus that it would not be wise to tell you someone you are foreseeing their death.

As a matter of fact, I think that if you did say such a thing, you could actually alter the upcoming events and cause harm to the person to the point that you would feel responsible for their injury or demise.

Let nature play it's course. You can't control it. And what good could come from informing someone that they or a loved one of theirs, has limited time?

However, if you meet someone and have a strong feeling that "This person needs to have their heart checked" or "This person needs to have a mammogram right away", then I would advise them of that.
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#17 Harmony1215

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 05:00 PM

I agree that it's best not to tell people unless you have a very strong feeling that you MUST/NEED to tell them.

I myself have had to tell my mother-in-law that her friend (who had passed away a few months before) had visited me while in circle during a full moon ritual, and needed me to tell the mother in law an important message.

For a few days I didn't know how to go about telling my mother in law what had happened. BUT I knew that this was a message that I couldn't ignore (like some messages I have ignored b/c it wouldn't make a difference, the outcome was still the same)
So I called up the in law, explained to her that sometimes I get these messages and that her close friend by the name of ___, who had features like ___, and died of ____ needed me to give her this message.
Needless to say, she was a little freaked out since I had never met her friend. BUT she did take to heart what I had to say and did get checked out by her heart doctor (she had heart surgery a few weeks before) b/c something wasn't right. It was something minor but if unchecked (like my mother in law was doing) would have been a really serious issue after a few more weeks. She thanked me afterwards and since then has told me that if I ever get a message like this again from anyone regarding her or her family that I should tell her and that she would listen to me.

I'm lucky that I have such open family members, if this had been just a random person on the street I wouldn't have given the message to them and it would have had a bad outcome.

Sometimes you get messages/visions for a reason (to help the outcome) other times it's just messages/visions that you can't control and can't change the outcome but we see it anyways. I guess that's the pro's and con's of having these "gifts".

I always like to think that using these gifts to help the outcome of someone will also help myself out karmically in my next lifetime.

Blessed BE

#18 spiritalk

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 09:44 AM

Those that get premonitions (of death in particular) in dreams are untrained, unfocused and unreliable in their manifestations. To tell someone of death from the source of a dream is definitely unethical. And even if it were a psychic vision, the fact is psychic abilities come also with symbolism and death is the ending of one condition as you seek another in your life.

God bless, J

#19 BellaRose

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 04:50 PM

Why would someone receive a premonition if they weren't supposed to do something about it?

#20 Bluemooncat

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 06:59 PM

Wow, what great resonse! Thank you everyone.
I have to say I am now reasured that I kept my mouth shut both times and said nothing.

BellaRose, I have no answer to your question other than when my friends father passed it did sort of help me to help her. She had a lot of guilt to work though and knowing that it was probably ment to happen helped me find helpful things to say.

I haven't had a stong premonition like those in years, it's been at least two, maybe three, and who knows maybe I won't ever get them again because I WAS suposed to do something and failed.

I have another very good friend, who told me, when I was going through a kind of spiritual crisis a while back that the way I "feel" had "changed" some how. I think she ment the sense she had of my presense. She told me I was repressing myself and that I just needed to "let myself be"

I am wondering if these strong premonitions that actaully came true, (and I was shocked and dismayed when they did) are what made me withdraw and repress.

When I worked in long term health care (nursing homes) I would often have dreams about dead bodies, and not long after a resident that I worked closely with would die. I never made a big deal of it and it never bothered me, because well, the elderly die and sometimes that is not always a bad thing. But I think knowing that this woman's baby wasn't going to make it and then knowing my friends father was going to pass, and then having it actaully happen, really really bothered me. It still doesto be honest but I am trying to get past it and not lose a part of myself that is very important to me, though up until now I had never really identified it.

Sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense.
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#21 spiritalk

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 11:01 AM

How trained is the receiver? How high is their spiritual guidance? How much do they want the ego stroking of being right?

Before suggesting that everything comes for a reason or from a good source, we must consider our own part to play in the exercise. And how spiritually adept do we strive to make our own approach.

God bless, J

#22 BellaRose

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 01:01 AM

How trained is the receiver? How high is their spiritual guidance? How much do they want the ego stroking of being right?

Before suggesting that everything comes for a reason or from a good source, we must consider our own part to play in the exercise. And how spiritually adept do we strive to make our own approach.

God bless, J

Hi J,
Could you possibly clarify what you are discussing?
~Bellarose

#23 Laurie Ann

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 04:21 AM

~Ego stroking of being right? What is that supposed to mean? Do you perhaps think the receiver is on an ego trip of some sort by asking a question, or perhaps by sharing their experience? Please clarify what you mean.
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#24 Bluemooncat

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 09:43 PM

I think what Spirittalk is trying to say is that if the reciver is using an untrained and low-level ability to get attention than the original question is a mote point. I think he is also trying to say that one should analys ones own motives for possibly wanting to "see the future" to gain attention and prestige.

Spirittalk if I am totaly off and missunderstood you, appologies.

Edited by Bluemooncat, 29 March 2007 - 09:44 PM.

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#25 spiritalk

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 09:55 AM

Exactly moon, what is the motive of receiving a message of death? The ethics state, of course, not to tell it. So is the receiver in some sort of place of ego stroking of self...I can get such a message?

Not ALL messages are meant to be shared. Many a message is given to help the medium/psychic decipher the whys so they can be better placed to give the message. They do not have repeat the pains of the receiver, merely suggest another step in their journey.

God bless, J

#26 BellaRose

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 09:03 PM

Thanks BlueMoon and Spiritalk for the clarification.

#27 spiritalk

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 09:28 AM

I recently heard a story told by Deepak Chopra: It had to do with the patient having an operation and when they were opened up, cancer was everywhere. So they closed her up and sent her home. Her daughter was told of the cancer and insisted the doctors not tell her mother.

Under the assumption that all harm had been removed during the operation, the patient returned to the doctor months later, well and whole. Her belief was keeping her alive for some time to come.

What the mind knows, we can manifest on body.

God bless, J

#28 Bluemooncat

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 11:57 PM

Wow, Spirittalk, that's a pretty amazing story. I love hearing about things like that. :Spaz:
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#29 aloha_spirit

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 02:17 AM

Those that get premonitions (of death in particular) in dreams are untrained, unfocused and unreliable in their manifestations.

I take offense to that. Many of my premonitions and dreams do come from dreams. Many prophets of my religion have had significant dreams (Jacob's ladder to heaven, Ezechiel foreseeing the joining of the book of Judah with the book of Joseph, Joseph being warned to flee to Egypt with Mary and Jesus, etc).

I foresaw two deaths, told no one of the dream, and it happened the way I envisioned it. I foresaw meeting a certain stranger a year in advanced (I even saw the very clothes he was wearing). I had a vision that explained certain temple rites in a whole new light.

What I hope you meant to say (and I agree with this) is that one must be able to discern dreams and their meanings. Most dreams are of the normal variety - just your mind going over recent events and your fears and anticipations. Other dreams have deeper meaning, but are symbolic in nature. That dream where I'm in the jungle - does that hint at a past life, show a glimpse of the future, or is it a metaphor for my uncertainty? Then there are dreams which are literal messages with little for us to interpret. You need to learn to discern them because it's different for everybody.

Yes, I've had insight, even inspiration while awake. I told a girl in Brazil things that no one else could have known. I had just arrived in the city, so I didn't know her or anyone else. She asked for a blessing of comfort (I am an Elder in my Church), but the words that came to me were anything but comforting. I commanded her to repent and become worthy of her baptism (this has a double meaning in Portuguese and I wasn't sure which one applied at the time; I didn't even know if she was a member of the Church). I then said she needed to pass this message onto Jilson (the boy she was secretly sleeping with - and whose baby she was carrying, though she wasn't showing yet - though I hadn't met Jilson or even heard his name).

I am not a Prophet, just an Elder. I don't seek people's futures. I don't tell fortunes. Visions and inspiration come when they are needed, but I can't force them to come on demand. I am well trained to recognize it, though, when it does come.

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#30 spiritalk

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 10:27 AM

Are we more involved with being right? Or does spirituality and love play a part? How loving is it to fill someone's mind with death rather than life?

The Bible is full of psychic stories for those who read them in that manner. But dreams are a more unconscious time of psychic abilities. What happens in dreams by chance, can happen in meditation by design. Our consciousness being active is the best approach.

Our feelings are sometimes just our feelings. Be aware that we can and do make mistakes. In my tradition it is stated that at the beginning of opening to the psychic/mediumship abilities there is an equation...10% spirit/90% self. It is our job to turn this around...remembering there is always a part of self in the equation.

It takes our own ego motivations to aid us in our deciding which is which for best demonstration of abilities. Don't be right, be spiritual!



God bless, J




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