77 replies to this topic

[aloha_spirit]

ravenhecate, on Apr 19 2007, 10:30 AM, said:

I don't want to start a debate on the Bible or what is contained therein, however if you want to really see what the Bible has to say about Witchcraft, it might be advisable to research the texts before Constantine and King James got their hands on them. One might be surprised at exactly what those text really say.

The Dead Sea Scrolls predate Constantine, and they still agree with our modern translations.

[Corey]

Not saying this to offend anyone, its just my opinion after all,but. I think the blending of the Christian faith and Wicca is caused by people who were raised Christian and cant bring themselves to abandon the beliefs that they grew up and have believed for a long time. They can't abandon the Christian faith, but want to add some of the "cooler" aspects of the pagan faiths. Go to your Christian church and tell the priest about your divinations, or any spellwork you do and see what he has to say about it.
Choose your faith wisely, and dont be afraid to be honest with yourself. If something doesnt feel right, then don't use it. Remember, its a faith,not a fad. Don't think that the first steps to paganism are wearing all black, and wearing a pentacle the size of a hubcap.
Like I wrote above, this is all my opinion, and I'm not picking out anyone in particular, it's just how I feel.

[aloha_spirit]

Well said, Corey.

[Amadan]

If I may? If you go back to its earliest definitions, witchcraft involved a pact with the Devil or a dark spirit. Now before I get pelted by rocks here, religion in the 18-19th century was very black and white "If you don't worship the way I do..." but what about the human element, how many people faced the gallows or flame because their crops were bumper or had a better touch with children/people and others were jealous of it?

As Aloha pointed out, it is possible to merge the two, but the result is a hybrid, neither one nor the other

[woebetide mourn]

I voted no. On a spiritual level, yes i believe you could blend both beliefs most definitely, religion should be a personal thing that you're happy with. But on a religious level, if you're a witch and Christian, you would have to condemn yourself, and would be condemned by other Christians.

That's how i view it.
woe

Edited by woebetide mourn, 30 April 2007 - 06:55 PM.

[Bluemooncat]

Hey Corey, what's wrong with wearing all black and a pentaragm the size of a hubcap?
Lol, I'm just kidding.
You actually make a really good point, in that there are a lot of "pagans" and or "wiccans" who are in it because to them it IS a sort of fad.
It seems to be a phase a lot of teenage girls go through, too.
As a result I think it's difficult for a lot of peole to accept Wicca as a legitmate religion.
Now, I know this has been covered in another thread, but Wicca and Witchcraft are viewed by many, many people as two diffrent things. Wicca is a religion and Witchcraft is a skill and something that can be precticed within any religion.
With that in mind it IS possible to be a "Christian Witch," but based on Christianity's views on Witchcraft, I simply wouldn't recomend it . . .

Also, witchcraft tends to "borrow" from a lot of other religions and I'm sure that there are some out there who see Jesus as a deity to be "borrowed" and used as an interpretaion of their vision of the Devine. But if you call them "Christian Witches" then you have to have "Buddist Witches" "Native American Witches", "Egyptian Witches" "Roman Witches" and so on.

And yes, when an idividual is raised a Christian becomes disatisfied with that faith and moves on to another it IS difficult to completly abandon that faith, especially as an adult and especialy if your family is Christian. But it is a choice made by a lot of people.

[Morbid]

...There ARE Native American witches (Shaman), Egyptian witches (scryers and the like), and Roman witches (not sure of the name).

[Bluemooncat]

okay I feel kinda stupid now, I really didn't think of it that way . . .
My bad.
(ruin an argument with the truth will you, )

[NightangelChris]

I had to vote no on this one... but that is my own personal take on it.
My father is a hard core catholic (I was so relieved that he took my conversion to wicca so well), but I know for a fact that he would NOT have been happy with me if I had decided use God as he understands him to be, as a focus of my worship while I was scrying, communicating with spirits and casting spells. He actually was going to join the priesthood when he was younger and even went to school for it (changed his mind, thankfully... and I say thankfully because if he HAD become a priest, my siblings and I would not exist...lol). I wouldn't have even tried the fusion of the two religions because of the hassle I would have gotten from RC's (my former religion) about mixing the two together. I never felt right with my former religion anyway, and stumbled across wicca in junior high, and I've stuck to it ever since.

[Palimpsest]

Greetings. I may have come here belatedly, but I just wanted to put in that some Voodoo practitioners have blended Christianity quite seamlessly into their faith, though of course Voodoo isn't considered a branch of Christianity... but isn't more or less the same hybridization done with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, or Kabbalism?

Anyway, both Christ and the Rede teach, "Love all / Harm none," and in practice, Jewish angels are invoked during the famous big banishing rituals, and the Holiday tree (as well as the incongruous colored eggs during Easter) has adopted many pagan symbols. Generally Wicca is more an earth-worshipping religion, and that's easily included in respecting "All God's creatures," and if it's the patriarchal part that comes in conflict, then it's not that hard to include Shekina, or to consider that Abraham discovered a genderless single power "Jehova, that which is" that created the monotheism.

The Bible says not to consult fortune tellers and not to "suffer a witch to live" but that is, like, sooo last testament! I believe that was stuck in somewhere between disallowing the wearing of two different fabrics (which means polyester is out, taken literally and applied to the modern day where it's less practical,) and homosexuality. God isn't in favour of talents going to waste, (the word talent, I believe, comes from the very form of currency mentioned in a parable about investment) so psychics wouldn't necessarily be persecuted, but recognized as in possession of god-given abilities (and, okay, well, persecuted as aberrants, but I'm sure it won't be by any of the above mentioned deities' full sponsorship so much as a barbaric vestige that's the fault of society.)

In short: except for the world being too young yet for this to be accepted outside of isolated personal faiths, I don't see the conflict at all. But that's just my opinion (Chaote speaking, and my mother's hosting some missionaries who speak in tongues, have prophetic dreams, and don't know that they're habitual theurgists-- or at least they don't use the word "theurgy" but I almost faint with the sudden energy charge in the room every time they start with the "Let us put ourselves in the Presence..." so you understand where I'm coming from.)

[Bluemooncat]

I was once visiting a church and while sitting quietly and taking in the surroundings and pondering the conflicts between the faith I had chosen and the faith I was raised in I seemed to hear a tiny voice in my head.
"It's all the same"
I have found much comfort in this.

[NightNGaleX3x]

I believe that there can be Christian Witches. But Christian Wiccans, no. Choose a flavor. There are many.

I know of people who's God and Goddess they worship are Jesus and Mary. They are't Christo-Wiccans though. They are either Christian Witches or just Wiccans. Witchcraft isn't a religion, it's a practice (craft) and you can pick your deities. Something doesn't taste right when someone wants to be both Christian and Wiccan. The traditions and practices and a lot of beliefs are different. So how you worship is pretty much all that one is changing since you can still worship the same people.
Which makes me believe that something is iffy. I agree with what someone said earlier, that it's probably just fear stopping someone from being one or the other.

And righto! It's pretty much all the same, just gone about differently. You eat your pizza with pepperoni and I'll eat mine with green pepper.

Yeah, blending of religions have happened but they've been put into a pot, some spices added, some spices taken out, and stirred untill something new popped out of it. Christianity you could say has already been into the pot with paganism. Being a Christian AND a Wiccan is just boggles my mind. I can't even fathom being of two religions (Judeo-Buddhism? Wicca-Candomble? Unitarian-Satantism?).

[Hadriana]

to each his own, and I think you can be whatever you want to be - christian means christ like and I know several wiccans that fit the bill more than some outspoken Christians...but personally I am neither.

I have a heretic heart and I don't pray, I cast spells.

[paemt]

I was reading this thread and this popped into my head.

Our strength is what fills our hearts.

[Puti]

Wow! What a subject for thinkers!
Erato, I just love your George Orwell quote. And that's me. I always asked too many questions, as a child, and still now as an old woman. We can't stop questioning. So my big question, when being told of some rule of the church was mostly, "What did Jesus say about that?" There was no answer. Then I grew up and read about church history and found my own answers. I kept everything of value to build my own spiritual life. Sorry, I'm going on and on to make a point (old people do this!lol) Back in the 60s when a movement came about and was labled "catholic pentecostals" and "catholic charismatics" I found a place to be which saved my sanity. (moved on since then) Don't let me write a book on this now! Everyone who's been raised christian of any kind has heard of the "gifts of the Holy Spirit". I believe everyone has a gift, or 2 or 3. Read them again and see how we all fit in, no matter what religion we are.
Ravenhecate, you seem to have a grasp of history. Now there's a scary subject. The history of the christian church, run by men of power, would want us to give up our will to them and forget that we have any of our own will ,and our own gifts.
YES! I believe we can be everything because of our gifts.
And, by the way, Jesus was a Jew and I wonder.....was he really trying to start a new religion or just show a WAY of life?
I voted YES