77 replies to this topic

[Vampchick21]

What is now Christianity started out as, in essence, Judasim for Gentiles.

The major difference between the two faiths is that Christians believe that Christ is the Messiah, no ifs, ands or buts. The Jewish peoples are still waiting for the Messiah and like Islam, only view Jesus as a prophet at best. So really, by breaking off from Judasim, Christians did not break off from Christ, since they took him along with them, believing him the Messiah.

And no one is giving out lessons hon, it's a discussion. A sharing of knowledge, points of views and opinons.

[Bluemooncat]

I'm loving this topic. It's really interesting to me.
I'm a bit out of my depth with religious history though. But I do want to recomend a book I once read called "The Life of Pi". The actual story is not really relivant to this topic, but the main character's relgious belief's are. He was a practing Hindu, Muslim AND Christian. In the book when he is confronted by the leaders of each of his faith's he says to them with a child's bewilderment "I just want to love God."
Whoever or what ever "god" is to you, I think having a loving relationship with him/her/them, is the whole point, so my earlier comments aside, I find myself thinking "why not? If one can be both a Christian and a witch, then that is that person's choice and as long as they hurt no one or themselves, what does it matter?

[Puti]

I like that bluemooncat! Reminds me of my friend Lisa, who says to anyone who asks her religion, "I'm all of the above."

[Hadriana]

Multiple religious disorder works too.

[FaithCoil]

I don't find this possible with any true devotion to one or the other, Although I have heard others claim Witchcraft to be an open practice. I think it would be easier to build your own religious convictions than claim having two and meaning it.

It sounds more like they like the draw of witchcraft, but feel guilty about it, so they claim Christianity as well.

In all aspects they are not considered interchangable, but deeper than just saying witchcraft is worshiping the devil. That is a canned response.

[Puti]

Some one once told me that to be a heretic is to pick and choose what we like and throw out the rest. Well, heretic that I am, I still say we can be everything! LOL

[Bluemooncat]

Hadriana, on Jun 16 2007, 12:51 AM, said:

Multiple religious disorder works too.

I like that!

[FaithCoil]

An interesting approach, Puti.

Tell me though, is it that you are fascinated by all religion? It's a wonderful thing to research all religions, but can one be truly religious with all?

[Bluemooncat]

FaithCoil, on Jun 19 2007, 07:01 AM, said:

An interesting approach, Puti.

Tell me though, is it that you are fascinated by all religion? It's a wonderful thing to research all religions, but can one be truly religious with all?

My question would be; what does "religious" mean, exactly. I think you can have a strong and fulfilling faith with out having to be "religious" at all.

(Sorry, I know that wasn't speciffically addressed to me, but I would like to know what "religous" means to you, Faith. It means diffrent thngs to diffrent people, is what I'm trying to get at)

Edited by Bluemooncat, 19 June 2007 - 09:59 AM.

[FaithCoil]

Certainly, anyone can bring up thoughts. My posts are rarely directed to anyone one person, but open for discussion by all.

To me the term religious would mean a deep devotion to a set religion ,in which all rules, laws, and concepts are followed as close to a tee that being human allows. It's the state of intense devotion to the letter of a religion. They practice meaninfully, its many fascets and rituals, understand their meaning, and feel them as part of their own, entire being.

Now there is a difference between being spiritual and being religious. I feel there is a very clear cut difference between the two.

Spiritual is less restrictive to set paths. Normally the only path that is followed is that of "enlightenment", or personal, positive affirmations and a more self-proclaimed or self derived set of beliefs or guidelines to work with.

One can be religious about getting up in the morning and doing the same, intricate detailed routine over and over.

Being spiritual to me, means a personal strengthening belief in having a soul, a spirit, the spiritual realm that can be attained through certain positive thoughts and ideas, and a strong self worth through these beliefs.

[Puti]

Faith, I think you answered that for me. The difference between religious and spiritual. The first time this actually came out of my mouth (I surprised myself!) was when one of my daughter-in-laws, thinking she was complimenting me, said that I was very religious. It just jumped out of my mouth, "puleeeze don't call me religious!" Guess it was the day I realized I wasn't a card-carrying ------.Fill in the blank.
Don't get me wrong....religion is very nesessary. But I feel we must mature spiritually and tend our faith in a grown up way. Tending to our own spiritual life in any way we can find. Books, teachers, etc. For me it started with books. Church history---what an eye opener! That's when I started sorting out what I wanted to keep and what to trash. Now, I'm NOT one of those cradle catholics that bemoan the fact that I was born there. I attended catechism class once a week from nuns who came from a school in town. There were things spoken of in that class that fit in very well to a little girl who also saw and heard spirits!
Someone? on this board has this quote, I think by Orwell that says something like "you can't be a catholic and a grown up". I say that we all, catholics, or what ever religion you were dumped into, must grow up. Take what you need, and bring it with you on your journey to growing up. Whether it's Wicca or ? I had the pleasure of visiting with Sylbil Leek when she was in Houston many years ago. We had a lot in common. A witch from old England and a catholic girl from Connecticut.
So like all of us here, I can only speak from my own experiences. And hope to never offend anyone.
Sorry to be so long-winded!

[Green Man]

R.L.crowley, on Apr 18 2007, 05:11 PM, said:

There is no such thing as a Christian wiccan, Because as a Christian you follow the bible, and it clearly states in the bible that the casting of spells is an abomination to the Lord. Deuteronomy 19 : 10-12

"Let there not be found among you one who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fortune teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghosts or dead spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. anyone who such things is an abomination to the Lord"

-Roger-

You might also like to know that the bible was re-written by King James to include such whereas it was nowhere to be found before. As well the old phrase "Thou shalt not suffer a Witch to live" was actually "Thou shalt not suffer a Poisoner to live". Funny how you can change books to read what you want them to read when you're a King.

[aloha_spirit]

Green Man, on Aug 16 2007, 02:30 PM, said:

You might also like to know that the bible was re-written by King James to include such whereas it was nowhere to be found before. As well the old phrase "Thou shalt not suffer a Witch to live" was actually "Thou shalt not suffer a Poisoner to live". Funny how you can change books to read what you want them to read when you're a King.

Actually, the King employed 54 scholars to produce a good translation of the Bible in English. The KJV borrows heavily from the Bishops' Bible.

I would like proof that the KJV altered the text in as significant manners as you accuse it.

I have referenced Exodus 22:18 in multiple online Bibles in Hebrew, and they all either use the word "witch" or "sorceress". As an example, check out the Masoretic Text where it is identified as verse 17. Interestingly enough, in his incomplete retranslation, Joseph Smith Jr. replaced the word "witch" with "murderer".

[Green Man]

aloha_spirit, on Aug 16 2007, 05:22 PM, said:

Interestingly enough, in his incomplete retranslation, Joseph Smith Jr. replaced the word "witch" with "murderer".

Interestingly enough, it seems King James and the Catholic Church aren't the only people who feel they had the right to change words around to suit their needs.

Murderer, Poisoner. So these are to be associated with Witch? The word (Witch) comes from an area of the world that is not even associated with the middle east, and conveniently replaced "Poisoner" after Christianity was forced upon those of British/Scottish/Irish descent by the Romans.

[aloha_spirit]

Green Man, on Aug 16 2007, 04:47 PM, said:

aloha_spirit, on Aug 16 2007, 05:22 PM, said:

Interestingly enough, in his incomplete retranslation, Joseph Smith Jr. replaced the word "witch" with "murderer".

Interestingly enough, it seems King James and the Catholic Church aren't the only people who feel they had the right to change words around to suit their needs.

The Masoretic Text was copied and preserved by a group of Jews (the Masoretes) earlier than 600 BCE. The other major source of the Old Testament text is the Septuagint, which is a Greek translation from about 300 BCE. If you know history, you should realize that this took place long before the Catholic Church came into existence.

I am curious as to your source which renders the word in question as "prisoner". The Septuagint renders Exodus 22:18 as You shall not save the lives of sorcerers. I am in the process of figuring out which fragments of the Dead Sea Scroll deal with this particular verse.