Jump to content


Click Here To Visit Our Sponsor


Photo

Religion Vs Medicine


  • Please log in to reply
96 replies to this topic

#1 Justa

Justa

    Champion YMCA dancer and professional spaghetti nose shooter

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,497 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 01 July 2004 - 05:16 PM

I am a firm believer that every individual has the right to practice whichever religion they so choose, and that no other person has the right to disrespect that choice, nor try to enforce their religious beliefs on another.  However, I do believe that there comes a time when certain religious beliefs / practices may hinder more so than help.  To be specific, I am talking about when your religion prohibits you from seeking medical attention.  Some religions are more strict about this than others.  For example, I believe (and anybody who knows I am wrong, feel free to point it out), that the J.W.ís prohibit blood transfusion, even in a life or death emergency.  The Church Of Scientology preaches that you should try to avoid medical interference whenever possible, and rely on prayer.  However, they will allow you to seek out medical attention if you have fractured a bone, and have it set by a MCP (medical care professional), but then turn to the power of prayer for the healing part of it.  A number of children have died as a result of their parents refusing medical attention, and believing in prayer, and a number of those parents have been charged.  

I am curious to get others opinions on this, as well as the beliefs of the various religious groups represented here.  I realize this is a hot topic, especially since children are involved, but I am sure we are all mature enough to discuss this without flying off the deep end.
Posted Image

#2 freyjasdottir

freyjasdottir

    Don't follow this leader

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,429 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA

Posted 01 July 2004 - 05:18 PM

I think of this way, Yes, God will provide but he does so by providing opportunities not opening the gates of Heaven to hand out support.  Also in the Bible (somewhere in the Old Testament) it states not to test Him which is what I think these religions are doing; not trusting but testing.
Posted Image

Myspace

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results." Albert Einstein

Posted Image

Posted Image I've been hit by mrsspookypants

#3 Justa

Justa

    Champion YMCA dancer and professional spaghetti nose shooter

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,497 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 01 July 2004 - 05:24 PM

That is a very good point Masquarade.  Part of the problem though is the interpretation of the bible.  For example, from what I have read the J.W.'s use the following three passages as their reasoning for not allowing blood transfusions.

Genesis 9:4: "But flesh (meat) with...blood...ye shall not eat"  
Leviticus 17:12-14: "...No soul of you shall eat blood...whosoever eateth it shall be cut off"  
Acts 15:29 "That ye abstain...from blood..."

If I am not mistaken, they believe that any form of taking in blood, including transfusions, is against the rules.
Posted Image

#4 snoopymom

snoopymom

    Village Elder

  • New Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,047 posts
  • Location:Fremont, Michigan

Posted 01 July 2004 - 05:31 PM

I have had to deal with this at work just recently.  I personally believe that faith is a wonderful thing, but that God has provided the right people with the right training to help with the healing (Doctors!)

Just my opinion.
I think I've discovered the secret of life - you just hang around until you get used to it. --Charles SchulzPosted Image

#5 Justa

Justa

    Champion YMCA dancer and professional spaghetti nose shooter

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,497 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 01 July 2004 - 06:56 PM

I like that philosophy Snoopymom
Posted Image

#6 trudy_causey

trudy_causey

    Village Elder

  • New Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 805 posts

Posted 01 July 2004 - 08:46 PM

I watched a mother let her little girl lay in the street and die after being hit by a car because she said that she believed that God would either allow her child to live or he would take her, but she would not allow the medics to step in and help her little girl she laid there and died. but the mother was prosecuted and tried for manslaughter. working in hospitals I have seen courts step in and over rule families about treatment and blood transfusions, thank God for nosey Judges.

#7 MoonChild

MoonChild

    Undead giant that feasts on hotdogs!

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 50,397 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Universe
  • Interests:Life

Posted 01 July 2004 - 10:25 PM

there was once a priest in a village. he was a devout worshipper and believer and did everything good with prayers and religion. once there was a heavy flood and the near by river came flooding immersing the entire village. people were running with whatever they got in hands, but the flood waters kept rising. the priest told, he won't leave since God will save him come whatever may. people came in bullock carts and called him, but he never left. as the water rose he started climbing the floors of the prayer house. people came in truck with whatever they can hold, and asked him to jump in, he never budged. he reached the terrace of the shrine, and people leaving last came with a boat to him, but he never climbed in, his belief was that God will svae him and he will stay. In the end, water rose so much that he was clinging on the last brick of the building. it was then when the military helicopters came for the rescue, they threw a rope down to him and asked him to cling, but he yelled out - God will save me. Alas! water rose, he drowned....... being a good follower and believer he got a place in heaven, and he also got to meet with God Almighty! so hs asked God, O! Lord! I have devoted my entire life and time worshipping you and praying, and helping the villagers, but why did such a fate came to me? Why didn;t you save me? for this God smiled to him and said :"Then who do you think sent you the bullock carts, truck, boat and helicopter?"




Moral: God has given us everything, but if we choose NOT TO use them effectively, we are doomed! afterall DON'T BLAME GOD! Leave Him alone!


same with this thought too Justa. Medicinal breakthru's were a help from God, if we choose not to use it properly, then don;t CRY FOUL! I agree totally that prayer is the BEST form of medicine available, but prayer has to be WITHOUT DOUBT! How many of us have absolute belief afterall? We even doubt our OWN SELF's these days!
Posted Image

#8 anasuya

anasuya

    Village Elder

  • New Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,395 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 01 July 2004 - 10:26 PM

I posted in the Spirit Communication board something that fits here. Remember that story of a man who is trapped in the middle of a flooded river, and he's praying to God to save him? Well, a man comes by in a row boat and asks the guy if he needs any help, and the man says "No, I waiting for God to save me", so the man in the boat rows on. I'll skip the rest of it, but the gist of it is that when the man finally succumbs to the powers of the flood and dies, he stands before God and asks, "Why didn' you save me?", and God says, "Well, I sent you a rowboat!". lol.

I agree with Masq on this one, that God DOES provide, but it's not always in the form of some spectacular "miracle". I certainly couldn't be a doctor, no matter how much schooling I had, and this is because I'm simply not MEANT to be a doctor. God provides these people for that specific reason. I always have to shake my head in sadness and, I'll admit, pity, when I hear about people who refuse medical treatments based on their religion. It's quite scary, especially for kids who can't make these decisions for themselves.

Ana
Don't be a newt!

#9 MoonChild

MoonChild

    Undead giant that feasts on hotdogs!

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 50,397 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Universe
  • Interests:Life

Posted 01 July 2004 - 10:34 PM

lol Ana.........great minds thinks :)
Posted Image

#10 anasuya

anasuya

    Village Elder

  • New Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,395 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 02 July 2004 - 04:31 AM

lol Moon, and I thought for sure I wouldn't have to worry about double posts after midnight!

Too funny. At least you took the time to tell the story completely. lol.

Ana
Don't be a newt!

#11 MoonChild

MoonChild

    Undead giant that feasts on hotdogs!

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 50,397 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Universe
  • Interests:Life

Posted 02 July 2004 - 04:36 AM

but i get double posts when it is midnight when you all are awake! lol
Posted Image

#12 Justa

Justa

    Champion YMCA dancer and professional spaghetti nose shooter

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,497 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 02 July 2004 - 09:06 AM

I don't know if it the actual prayer itself that is helpful, or the positive state of mind that it puts you in.  It has been proven that those with a positive outlook tend to heal faster.
I still have a problem with using the "Prayer without doubt" as a way of saying, "ok, you didn't get better, you must not have believed as much as you should have".  I do agree that you should have total faith, but to say that if you have doubt it won't work, is almost accusational to the person who is praying.  Maybe they do have complete faith, but there is just nothing that can be done.
Posted Image

#13 aloha_spirit

aloha_spirit

    I'm 100% Poi Dog!

  • Town Council
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,534 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Utah County, Utah, USA
  • Interests:Computer Programming, Books, Movies, Nature, Religion.

Posted 02 July 2004 - 02:34 PM

Religion is for the spirit, medicine for the body.

Whenever a family member needs to see a doctor, they receive a priesthood blessing.  This prayer is often worded to the effect that the doctor's thoughts and hand would be directed and that the person's body would react well to the treatment.

In emergencies, two blessings are given.  The first is that the person will live long enough to receive proper treatment.  The second is a normal blessing.

90% of blessings give the condition "if it is the Lord's will."

In one blessing, I promised a guy that his suffering would be short.  He fell asleep then half an hour or so later expired, a smile on his face.

I didn't lose my mind - I have it backed up on a disk ... somewhere


#14 bardo

bardo

    Would like to sit on the clouds and watch the world

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,061 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:the world here and beyond...lol anything ghosty I don't watch very much tv but when i do it's shows like supernatural.<br />I love music ....going to concerts.....groups like the dropkickmurphys,floggingmollies,pogues, some old stuff like the clash and joe strummer. I just saw Bob Dylan and The Who .<br />I like just about anything but country I do love Johnny cash though!<br />I love walking my dogs and getting outside as much as possible .<br />I plan on living until I'm at least 150 .

Posted 02 July 2004 - 04:20 PM

How could you let your child die without doing everything possible to help them? I would gladly spend eternity in hell to protect my children.Religion should be for the soul.I had a friend who found out she was pregnant while she was on going cemo.The doctors told her it would be best if she abort ,these same doctors told her she couldn't get pregnant.She went off cemo. and 6mths later had a beautiful boy.She felt he was sent to earth by God ,she was very relig. Not long after she died of cancer leaving three children and a husband behind she never regreted her decision.Was it right? Who knows for sure.
Posted Image Dreams are today's answers to tomorrow's questions. Edgar Cayce


#15 Cristelle32

Cristelle32

    Villager

  • New Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 202 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 03 July 2004 - 12:11 PM

We all know that as a parent it's wrong not to do everything that's in your power to save your kids, however, some died because of their parents' religious beliefs -

do you really believe that the people involve who didn't take their children to hospital are living a fulfilling, happy existance now?  somehow, i think not!

For me, that's religion gone mad !




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users