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Black Magick


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#31 natas

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 08:41 PM

Traditonal's do believe that jesus is the son of god and do believe that god exists but yet we choose to worship Lord Satan, it's cool don't mind answering your questions.

HP Belial
The gates of Hell are open, night and day;Smooth the descent, and easy is the way.

#32 natas

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 08:44 PM

was hard trying to be who I am living with catholics but learned to not to leston to em it would go in one ear and out the other so basicly would shut em out
The gates of Hell are open, night and day;Smooth the descent, and easy is the way.

#33 shellas13

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 09:45 PM

Thank you for answering the questions, Belial...and I DO respect your faith, even though it's not one that I subscribe to, lol. In a way, we are all called to our 'faiths' no matter what they may be, and for that, I'm glad that you've found your niche, so to speak, lol. If you have any other insights or tidbits about your often very 'misunderstood' beliefs, I, for one, would love to hear them. I've always believed that knowledge is the key to everything, and I'm not one to shy away from stuff I don't understand...in fact, I'm just the opposite. It makes me even MORE intrigued because after all, the more pieces you gather in your life, the clearer pic of yourself you possess! ;D

BB

#34 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 10:36 PM

Rather than address each post individually, I chose to just make one general post addressing the subjects talked about in the other posts and adding a few of my own.

The difference between black magick and white magick is virtually nonexistent.  ALL magick manipulates something or someone, there is no such thing as magick that "harms none."  Harm is a subjective thing.

A good rule of thumb to remember is that magick follows the path of least resistance.  In order to prevent things from happening to people along the way, the spell must be designed to do just that.  If you do a spell to ask for a better job, bear in mind that in order to make a job for yourself become available, someone else is going to have to lose a job.  If you do a spell to come into money, unless you word it that you want it to come via, say, opportunities being made to you to be able to earn more money, the money could conceivable end up coming to you via an inheritance through the death of a loved one.  You need to carefully think out the "what ifs" when writing a spell, and take into consideration that if you do not state the route through which you wish to achieve the results, magick is going to take the easiest route for you to get your results, and oftentimes things and people are harmed, even if not directly by the person doing the spell.

The fluffy bunnies now have a whole rainbow of terms for magick.  They have their very favorite, white magick, and their arch enemy, black magick.  But then they also have all kinds of colors in between.  They even have what they call "green magick", which is how they refer to magick done with herbs.  I don't know about you guys, but I use herbs in most of the stuff I do, and I have never called it "green magick."

My favorite is when people start hooting about the Wiccan Rede and the Rule of Three.  What they don't realize is that the Wiccan Rede is not Wiccan at all, it's a neo-Wiccan thing, and it's far from ancient, it was written in 1975 and appeared in a publication called "The Green Egg."
 http://www.draknetfr...homas/poem.html

"An' it harm none, do what ye will be the whole of the law."  NOTHING about magick harms none.  Nothing about LIFE harms none.  Every day we kill things, however unintentionally.  Bugs, germs, plants, animals to eat, what makes magick any less removed from harming none?  And ALL magick is manipulation.  Manipulation ALWAYS harms something, even if it's a negligible harm.  Back to the thing about the job spell.  The job has to come from somewhere.  So unless someone opens up a new business and needs new employees, a promotion or better job is most always going to come at the expense of someone else losing theirs.  

The Rule of Three really tweaks my weasel.  Like the Wiccan Rede, the Rule of Three is not ancient by any stretch of the imagination.  It too was written in 1975, right along with the Rede.  The idea behind it was to put the brakes on newbie witches who thought they could become a witch and immediately start smiting people.  The women who wrote the Rule of Three felt that they could control newbies via the threat that everything they did would come back to them three times over.  This whole concept is not only silly, it's an impossibility.  

If you think about it logically, everyone in the world who did something horrible would be totally unable to get ahead in life, yet there are miserable people the world over who enjoy great prosperity.  On the other hand, everyone who lives a clean, decent life would be swimming in good things, and yet there are people who do nothing but help others who have much misery befall them.  There are also small children who have never even had the chance to do anything, good or bad, who are dying of insidious diseases.  If the Rule of Three were true, it would mean that if I gave someone a dollar, I'd get three back.  It has yet to happen.  

So neither the Wiccan Rede (which isn't even Wiccan) nor the Rule of Three are "ancient" in any sense of the word, and, in fact, the reference to the Rule of Three by Gerald Gardner was that if someone does something to you, you should return it TO THEM three times and not that you would get it back.

With regard to Satanism, Satanism is very poorly named.  There is nothing Satanic about it other than the Baphomet they use for their logo.  Basically, its practitioners worship themselves.  If you read the Nine Satanic Statements and the Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth, they all just make good sense!  Satanists protect what is theirs, they harm nobody.  They do not sacrifice anyone or anything.  With all due respect to those who say they practice Satanism yet do any type of sacrificial work, this is not Satanism, this is Devil Worship.  There is a distinct difference between the two.  It doesn't mean either path is any less valid, however there is a distinct difference between them.  The only sacrificing that will happen at the hands of a Satanist is if or when they are forced to protect themselves or their own.  http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

So with regard to Black Magick vs White Magick, I don't believe there is any difference.  Black Magick is just traditionally thought of as "evil" and therefore to be avoided, however it's essentially exactly the same as White Magick, therefore there is no inherent difference.

Elle

#35 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 10:42 PM

[quote]
So neither the Wiccan Rede (which isn't even Wiccan) nor the Rule of Three are "ancient" in any sense of the word, and, in fact, the reference to the Rule of Three by Gerald Gardner was that if someone does something to you, you should return it TO THEM three times and not that you would get it back.  quote]


UGH!  I will not post late at night.  I will not post late at night...

What this SHOULD have said was "the only reference even alluding to an original Rule of Three was by Gerald Gardner, who said that if someone does something to you, you should return it to THEM three times and not that you would get it back."  Sorry if I confused anyone by making a statement about Old Gerald (who was already old in the early 20th century) and the Rule of Three not being written until 1975.  I need to learn to preefrood my posts before hitting "post."   :)

Elle

#36 anasuya

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 09:41 AM

I'm likin your way of thinking more and more. We tend to agree, but your more articulate, so you can just post on behalf of the both of us! lol

BB, Ana
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#37 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 11:13 AM

I'm likin your way of thinking more and more. We tend to agree, but your more articulate, so you can just post on behalf of the both of us! lol

BB, Ana



Thank you, Ana.   :D

I know I get very wordy when it's a subject I'm passionate about, I don't know how articulate I actually am, but I try my darndest.   :)

Elle  

#38 natas

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 07:25 PM

think it is time 4 me to split 4 another long while as I always do, just wanted to say hi to them few friends that still remain here and to my sister Lady Pandora if your still around, I haven't forgotten about you Reyna, and to Secretsign sup buddy?
The gates of Hell are open, night and day;Smooth the descent, and easy is the way.

#39 anasuya

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 07:27 PM

it was nice to meet you Belial... hope to see you around some more.

Ana
Don't be a newt!

#40 natas

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 07:32 PM

maybe till the end of the yr or a month early
was nice meeting u as well.

Belial
The gates of Hell are open, night and day;Smooth the descent, and easy is the way.

#41 shellas13

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 03:17 AM

Bye, Belial, catch ya on the flip-flop and thanks again for answering my questions! ;D

And ecto...I do agree with most of your posts and as you seem very knowledgable, I respect what you've said and have learned a great deal. However, I've always believed that the rule of three has great value...not the LITERAL meaning of course, but just the fact that you DO get things back that you do, good or bad. I, too, don't like labels much of the time, but I have ask you...DO you even make a difference between 'good' or 'evil' magick, or are they really all the same to you? Being they are all manipulative? Do you ever categorize them, or just see them as a collective 'magick'? I'm curious, mostly because I DO categorize them...although mostly use the word 'good' or 'bad', lol. It's simplistic, but yet it works for ME. But I agree with what you said about 'claifying' whatever spell you use. I just normally say, "I wish this to happen IF and only if it is meant for me." Ex: for a love spell, I never say, "Give me so and so", but please allow me to meet the person that best suits me. I find that it's much less manipulative and also just gives the Universe some space and leeway to allow that person to come into my life, lol. Anyhoo, interesting stuff and thanks for the info. ;D

#42 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 04:33 AM

Bye, Belial, catch ya on the flip-flop and thanks again for answering my questions! ;D

And ecto...I do agree with most of your posts and as you seem very knowledgable, I respect what you've said and have learned a great deal. However, I've always believed that the rule of three has great value...not the LITERAL meaning of course, but just the fact that you DO get things back that you do, good or bad. I, too, don't like labels much of the time, but I have ask you...DO you even make a difference between 'good' or 'evil' magick, or are they really all the same to you? Being they are all manipulative? Do you ever categorize them, or just see them as a collective 'magick'? I'm curious, mostly because I DO categorize them...although mostly use the word 'good' or 'bad', lol. It's simplistic, but yet it works for ME. But I agree with what you said about 'claifying' whatever spell you use. I just normally say, "I wish this to happen IF and only if it is meant for me." Ex: for a love spell, I never say, "Give me so and so", but please allow me to meet the person that best suits me. I find that it's much less manipulative and also just gives the Universe some space and leeway to allow that person to come into my life, lol. Anyhoo, interesting stuff and thanks for the info. ;D



I believe that everyone is subject to the laws of cause and effect, however not in threes.  I'm not speaking of posts here, but I post in several communities and it just always irks me when someone comes around who obviously has read only one or two books by one of the fluffy authors, and then proceeds to speak as if they are an expert on witchcraft, admonishing people to "always remember the Rule of Three."  In my past experience, when pressed for an answer to "how many spells have you cast?" invariably these people answer "none, I'm just beginning."  In most cases you can even tell which book or books these people have read by the language they use, because they end up quoting almost verbatim from the book, thinking that it will appear as if this is their own "wisdom" shining through, apparently not realizing that anyone who has really been a witch for more than about a year is going to recognize the information and know exactly where they got it from.

As far as actually doing spells, I haven't done any revenge spells to smite someone, up to this point in my life I have never needed to do it.  I prefer to use magick for my own personal wants and needs, a money spell to make sure there's enough to pay a certain bill or even just for something frivolous, that kind of thing.  I have an extensive Book of Shadows with spells that have been tried and proven by other people, however, and I don't mind sharing them with those who may need them.  My ethics are not everyone's ethics.  I'm married, and I met and married my husband the old-fashioned way without the benefit of the help of magick.   :)  

When it comes to what I ask for in the spells I DO do, though, I always make it clear that this is how I want it to be.  I never leave it to chance and ask  that something only be granted if it's for the good of me or the person I'm doing the spell for, because, in my opinion, at that point it no longer becomes a spell, but basically reverts to being a prayer.  If I or someone I am doing a spell for wants or needs something badly enough to do a spell for it, I'm going to make sure that that spell yields the desired results.  Otherwise, I don't see the point in doing it, we might as well let the chips fall where they may.

One of the biggest causes of spell failure is adding the words "and let it harm none" or "if it's good for me."  At that point, you are inviting higher forces to interfere in the spell and if they don't feel you should have it, you won't get it, and the spell was done for nothing.  Either that or they might give you what THEY think is good for you, and it might not be what you had in mind at ALL.  I believe in leaving nothing to chance and simply getting what you're going after.  And again, my personal ethics are not to target specific people.  For example, if I want money to pay for something specific, I would never say "if it's good for me" because the higher powers that could get involved might not feel it's necessary for me to have a new piece of jewelry, or for my hubby to have a new guitar.  I'm doing the spell because I WANT whatever it is, not because I'm more or less asking permission to be able to get it.

Back to revenge spells for a minute though, although I have never done one, it doesn't mean that I wouldn't do it if someone did something deserving of it to me or my own.  When it comes to ethics on that, I believe that if someone truly deserves it, it can be done without repercussion.  In those cases, the person doing the smiting IS the repercussion on the one who wronged them.  On the other hand, when people run around smiting people willy-nilly just because someone looked at them funny, you get back what you dish out when it comes to smiting for no good reason.  This is why it is so important, if you are considering something like this, to make sure that the person who wronged you TRULY DID wrong you and you're not just doing something to get back at them because you might not particularly like them.  IMO, that's not what magick is to be used for.

Elle

#43 shellas13

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 05:12 AM

LOL@'smiting' ;D I love that word!

Honestly, ecto, I'd love to be able to peruse through your BOS, lol. I haven't done a spell in a LONG while...mostly because I just haven't had the need for them, lol. But I admit I'm kinda rusty now, lol, so don't know even if I SHOULD do them...because I tend to do that whole 'what's best for me' thing, because I just trust that the Universe will provide in the manner THEY see fit...but again, I guess it comes down to one's own beliefs and ideas of ethics, lol.

But that doesn't mean I'm not open to change or new approaches, lol. I've just learned that spells CAN backfire, and that's kinda discouraged me in the past. Maybe it's the way I said it or that I followed too closely to a book (LOL). But if you wouldn't mind sharing, what do YOU normally do to insure a spell's success? And have you ever had one backfire on you as well? Any thoughts on this would be highly appreciated as I WOULD like to do spells again to enhance my life. Thank you.

#44 anasuya

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 08:07 AM

BRAVO! At last... someone who agrees with me about this stuff. Sheesh. And I thought I was all alone in the world.

And Shellas, in my opinion, spells CAN backfire, regardless of wether or not you've adhered to the lofty "Rule of Three" (It makes me giggle just writing it out), and said your "if it should be for the good of me" speech, just as it can backfire if you cared less if it's for the good of you. lol. Crap happens, after all. I don't think a backfiring spell means the Divine force is out for revenge because you did something with selfish intent, it's just something got screwed up along the way.

DAGNABIT. I lost my train of thought. lol. As if that's anything new. Oh well, hope you got something out of the above paragraph, cuz Lord and Lady knows where I was going with it. Sheesh. Too much on my mind.

Ana
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#45 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 01 May 2004 - 09:22 PM

BRAVO! At last... someone who agrees with me about this stuff. Sheesh. And I thought I was all alone in the world.

And Shellas, in my opinion, spells CAN backfire, regardless of wether or not you've adhered to the lofty "Rule of Three" (It makes me giggle just writing it out), and said your "if it should be for the good of me" speech, just as it can backfire if you cared less if it's for the good of you. lol. Crap happens, after all. I don't think a backfiring spell means the Divine force is out for revenge because you did something with selfish intent, it's just something got screwed up along the way.

DAGNABIT. I lost my train of thought. lol. As if that's anything new. Oh well, hope you got something out of the above paragraph, cuz Lord and Lady knows where I was going with it. Sheesh. Too much on my mind.

Ana



A well-constructed, well-executed spell will not backfire.  However, a hasty revenge spell done out of anger has great potential for creating problems, because when someone acts out of anger, often they are thinking only of what they are angry at and are not careful to make sure that all their bases are covered.  This is the reason why I don't advocate anyone doing a revenge spell on a knee-jerk reaction.  

When it comes to spells that could backfire, I always advise people to think about the situation they are doing the spell for.  Chances are, something that makes you so angry you see red is, if let to sit a while (even a few hours) going to dissipate and you're not going to look at it in the same way.  Design the spell, gather the things you'll need to do it, but when it comes right down to doing it, wait a day.  Odds are you will look at things differently and will either decide to not do the spell, or you'll at least be doing it with a cooler head, where it's more possible to see things that might not turn out exactly as you want them to.  It could save a lot of "oopsing" and frantic undoing.   :)

Elle




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