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#16 anasuya

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 08:15 AM

Slowly coming to terms with "Neo-Wiccan"

Slowly coming to terms with "Neo-Wiccan"

Almost there....

Slowly coming to terms with "Neo-Wiccan"


etc etc
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#17 Vampchick21

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 09:25 AM

LMAO!!!

I rather like the way Ecto re-explained it.  Oathbound and Non-Oathbound, Wiccan and Witch.  Just different paths.  Many of my Witchy friends pulled inspiration and knowledge from the most part from avaliable resources on Gardnerian Wicca, but don't refer to themselves as Wiccan.  

I actually agree with her now that she's fully explained herself.  It's like a person calling themselves Catholic, without having done the necessary Sacraments (Catholic Baptism, First Communion, First Confession and Confirmation).  They can follow the theology and 'dogma' (for lack of a better term), and attend Mass, but they aren't really Catholic. They're Christian, but not Catholic.

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#18 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 10:39 AM

LMAO!!!

I rather like the way Ecto re-explained it.  Oathbound and Non-Oathbound, Wiccan and Witch.  Just different paths.  Many of my Witchy friends pulled inspiration and knowledge from the most part from avaliable resources on Gardnerian Wicca, but don't refer to themselves as Wiccan.  

I actually agree with her now that she's fully explained herself.  It's like a person calling themselves Catholic, without having done the necessary Sacraments (Catholic Baptism, First Communion, First Confession and Confirmation).  They can follow the theology and 'dogma' (for lack of a better term), and attend Mass, but they aren't really Catholic. They're Christian, but not Catholic.



Thanks, VampChick, I'm glad I was able to explain it adequately.    :)

You actually used a key word in what you said; that word being "available."  Lineaged Wiccans have always been careful (hence, the oathbound part) to keep the key parts of their religion unavailable to the masses, thereby preventing "unauthorized" (for lack of a better word) offshoots of their sects.

Elle

#19 Alsie R.

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 12:51 PM

thanks for the help elle. we've been having a wee bit of an argument over whether or not we need to have a high priest or priestess. i've got a few more questions for you, some of them from the rest of the coven:
my friend dev says that we can't wear any makeup or straighten our hair(me and dana have naturally wavy hair and look like hedgehogs without it) when we're having circles. and me and dana aren't sure if this is just dev being dev or if this is really a wiccan thingy.

dana also wants to know if we're all supposed to have designated elements in the circles. she also wants to know if there are any other major rules besides the threefold.

then there's me. what things are important for a witch to learn before they're "ready" to do spells? i've been learning about runes and herbal remedies and properties of stones, dev likes herbs and healing stuff and dana's more into the stones. i just like fire and runes. i'm such a little pyro
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#20 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 01 May 2004 - 08:47 PM

thanks for the help elle. we've been having a wee bit of an argument over whether or not we need to have a high priest or priestess. i've got a few more questions for you, some of them from the rest of the coven:
my friend dev says that we can't wear any makeup or straighten our hair(me and dana have naturally wavy hair and look like hedgehogs without it) when we're having circles. and me and dana aren't sure if this is just dev being dev or if this is really a wiccan thingy.

dana also wants to know if we're all supposed to have designated elements in the circles. she also wants to know if there are any other major rules besides the threefold.

then there's me. what things are important for a witch to learn before they're "ready" to do spells? i've been learning about runes and herbal remedies and properties of stones, dev likes herbs and healing stuff and dana's more into the stones. i just like fire and runes. i'm such a little pyro



The best part about being your own coven and not an offshoot of a lineaged one is that you can make up your own rules for yourselves.  The hair/makeup thing is something that can be decided amongst yourselves.  It's not going to affect anything either way.  Same thing with the elements.  You can choose rituals that the four of you are in agreement with and take it from there.  More important than the hair and makeup might be the mode of dress.  I am not Wiccan, however I have been invited on several occasions to be a guest at a coven meeting of the type of coven you are talking about organizing, and every time, most of the members have chosen to wear robes, either over their clothes, or instead of their clothes.  This gives things a more "witchy" feel instead of everyone just sitting around in street clothes.  I have never been to a coven meeting where the members worked skyclad, although there are some groups who choose to do this as well.  It depends on how well your group knows each other and what your modesty factor is as to whether or not you choose to do this.

So it's pretty much up to you what you do and how you do it, as long as the rest of your group is in agreement.   :)

Elle

What you could do is when you get together for your circles (many covens and solitaries as well have meetings or do rituals on the nights of full moons) is take turns opening and closing ithe circle and leading the group.  You could either all decide in advance what the program for the evening is going to be, or you could leave it up to the choice of the whoever's turn it is to open and close the circle that night.  You could have one person be in charge of opening and closing the circle (a different person each time) and have everyone else in the group plan something that they would like to lead the group in during the circle.  The possibilities are really pretty limitless.

Since it's just the four of you, you could choose an "initiation" rite that you all could take part in for your first meeting, so that everyone feels equal in the coven, and then if any of you have others that you would like to introduce into the coven at a later date, you can design an initiation ritual to allow them in.  Or, if initiation makes it seem too formal for you, you could have no initiation at all and just wing it each time in order to keep a more informal atmosphere.

#21 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 01 May 2004 - 08:50 PM

The best part about being your own coven and not an offshoot of a lineaged one is that you can make up your own rules for yourselves.  The hair/makeup thing is something that can be decided amongst yourselves.  It's not going to affect anything either way.  Same thing with the elements.  You can choose rituals that the four of you are in agreement with and take it from there.  More important than the hair and makeup might be the mode of dress.  I am not Wiccan, however I have been invited on several occasions to be a guest at a coven meeting of the type of coven you are talking about organizing, and every time, most of the members have chosen to wear robes, either over their clothes, or instead of their clothes.  This gives things a more "witchy" feel instead of everyone just sitting around in street clothes.  I have never been to a coven meeting where the members worked skyclad, although there are some groups who choose to do this as well.  It depends on how well your group knows each other and what your modesty factor is as to whether or not you choose to do this.

So it's pretty much up to you what you do and how you do it, as long as the rest of your group is in agreement.   :)

Elle

What you could do is when you get together for your circles (many covens and solitaries as well have meetings or do rituals on the nights of full moons) is take turns opening and closing ithe circle and leading the group.  You could either all decide in advance what the program for the evening is going to be, or you could leave it up to the choice of the whoever's turn it is to open and close the circle that night.  You could have one person be in charge of opening and closing the circle (a different person each time) and have everyone else in the group plan something that they would like to lead the group in during the circle.  The possibilities are really pretty limitless.

Since it's just the four of you, you could choose an "initiation" rite that you all could take part in for your first meeting, so that everyone feels equal in the coven, and then if any of you have others that you would like to introduce into the coven at a later date, you can design an initiation ritual to allow them in.  Or, if initiation makes it seem too formal for you, you could have no initiation at all and just wing it each time in order to keep a more informal atmosphere.




Okie dokie, I don't know what happened to my post, but it came out "inside out" with the end of it ending up in the middle.  I hope it's still understandable.  If it's not, I apologize for the glitch and if you've got any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.   ???

Elle

#22 hawkerdriver

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 12:20 PM

Ecto-

When I learned about the history about Wicca, my source, which now I couldn't recite if my life depended on it, related that Wicca and witchcraft were the result of centuries of women who were basically midwives and had considerable knowledge of homeopathic remedies as well as horticulture practices passed down from centuries upon centuries of generations.  The women being of Pagan origins is how the resulting practice of witchcraft came about.  Why it came about was that in those days illness was not about microscopic organisms that invaded the body and made people sick but because of evil spirits. So the knowledge of plant and primative medicine eventually combined into rituals now known as witchcraft or Wicca. A good healthy dose of superstition helped launch the practice of spells and such just as an added measure to make sure the stuff worked.  Witch is acutally a very offensive word and was the result of the fears of men (the male species) being intimidated by women who knew how to cure ailments and some simple diseases with their knowledge of plants and regimes.  Then throw in a little bit of ritual and boom it was now a BAD thing to have one of these people around.

Now, what I learned above, is that all wrong?  
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#23 hawkerdriver

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 02:32 PM

PS-- I was really impressed with WIcca before now because I was of the above belief.  That is was a woman based creation, and then I find out from you guys that some guy was the one who started it.  Now I'm bummed.  I'm already in a male based religion.  Sure in Hades don't want to go get invlolved in another one.  :)
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#24 Vampchick21

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 02:41 PM

Gardnerian Wicca was started by a man in the 1950's after England repealed it's Witchcraft Laws.  According to him, he learned it from a woman named Dorothy (I forget her last name right now).

Wicca as Ecto as described (Gardnerian, Dianic, Sexta, Picta) are indeed 20th century religions with a basis in Pre-Christian religions.  

Then there is what Ecto is referring to as Neo-Wiccan, she's given a very good explaination on that in several posts, and I simply cannot repeat it :)

At any rate, most Wicca has ONE diety in which the worshippers see both male and female sides (God and Goddess).  They give these two aspects various names from known Pre-Christian deities, understanding that these name represent further aspects of the two that are aspects of the one.

In the end, straight up Wicca is 20th century.  Not really passed down from generation to generation.  That kind of practice is referred to as Family Tradition and holds the name Witchcraft rather than Wicca.

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#25 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 03:00 PM

Gardnerian Wicca was started by a man in the 1950's after England repealed it's Witchcraft Laws.  According to him, he learned it from a woman named Dorothy (I forget her last name right now).

Wicca as Ecto as described (Gardnerian, Dianic, Sexta, Picta) are indeed 20th century religions with a basis in Pre-Christian religions.  

Then there is what Ecto is referring to as Neo-Wiccan, she's given a very good explaination on that in several posts, and I simply cannot repeat it :)

At any rate, most Wicca has ONE diety in which the worshippers see both male and female sides (God and Goddess).  They give these two aspects various names from known Pre-Christian deities, understanding that these name represent further aspects of the two that are aspects of the one.

In the end, straight up Wicca is 20th century.  Not really passed down from generation to generation.  That kind of practice is referred to as Family Tradition and holds the name Witchcraft rather than Wicca.



Dorothy Clutterbuck.  She initiated Gerald Gardner.

And to the rest of your post - yup.   :D

Elle

#26 earthstorm2525

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 04:03 PM

I believe you do not have dont have to be intiated into a coven to be a true Witch or there would probebly be alot less of us

#27 Vampchick21

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 04:49 PM

That's not at all what Ecto means.  What she means is that one is only a practicioner of Core Wicca if one is initiated into a Coven that can trace it's linage back to Gerald Gardner.  

Wicca is a religious faith.  One DOES NOT have to be Wiccan to be a Witch.  I practice Witchcraft and refer to myself as a Witchy Pagan or Witch when I need to keep it simple for someone, and I do not practice a Wiccan faith.  And then there is what Ecto referred to as Neo-Wiccan, meaning those that practice a Wiccan based faith, but are not initiated members of 'Core Wicca'.  None is better than the other.  Just different.

Again, Witchcraft is not the sole property of practicioners of Initiation based Core Wicca.

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#28 Vampchick21

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 04:51 PM

And thanks Ecto!  :)  I'm in the process of spring cleaning, all ALL my books are buried under the resulting mess.  So I couldn't grab the one I knew had her name in it.  :/

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#29 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 05:25 PM

I believe you do not have dont have to be intiated into a coven to be a true Witch or there would probebly be alot less of us




No, you don't have to be initiated into a coven to be a true witch.  You have to be initiated into a lineaged coven to be a true Wiccan.  Wiccans and witches are not one and the same.

Elle

#30 Ectoplazzum

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 05:27 PM

That's not at all what Ecto means.  What she means is that one is only a practicioner of Core Wicca if one is initiated into a Coven that can trace it's linage back to Gerald Gardner.  

Wicca is a religious faith.  One DOES NOT have to be Wiccan to be a Witch.  I practice Witchcraft and refer to myself as a Witchy Pagan or Witch when I need to keep it simple for someone, and I do not practice a Wiccan faith.  And then there is what Ecto referred to as Neo-Wiccan, meaning those that practice a Wiccan based faith, but are not initiated members of 'Core Wicca'.  None is better than the other.  Just different.

Again, Witchcraft is not the sole property of practicioners of Initiation based Core Wicca.



That's it in a nutshell.  Yup!    :)

Elle




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