16 replies to this topic

[Cristelle32]

A thought I developed from the 'do you believe in hell' thread:


Heaven and Hell are here on earth and can be experienced through the free will device we've been given - possibly - by the Highest Authority (that is commonly called God).  

When I think about it, karma, makes perfect sense and explains why we're so different from each other, go through different experiences, and see differently too.  In which case, reincarnation makes sense too....

We're made physically and not of this wonderful energy, which can be divided into negative and positive
We give off energy continuously.  It expands into the universe, and then eventually retracts to its point of origin, the famous: What Goes Around, Comes Around saying.

We're all sorted then! and can conclude that Life is Eternal, we go through the cycle of life and death and life again and so on.


I think the above is well neat and clear conclusion...don't you?

any ideas welcome....

[whispers_of_fire]

Hmmm...but what purpose the continuous cycle, Crystelle?

Its believed that we are working towards an eventual goal by coming back time after time, culminated lessons learned from all our past lives that may also tie into karmic debt<a bigot being reborn as a member of a minority in his next existence or a selfish/self-indulgent person having to grow up poor to understand want/need>I think, psychologically, we need to know there's an end, the tasks completed/lessons learned we go on to an Afterlife or the presence of the Divine.

Let me ask you this, what's heaven? By most people's definitions, its the Presence of the Divine...no matter what
that Entity's called. I can see it being different, because each person's different and may have different views about what that Presence includes*LOL*A person prone to being airsick may be in dread of having wings. But you see what I mean? Someone who loves to garden, their afterlife may be a huge garden that's always in bloom ;D

Just my thoughts,
Whispers

[Cristelle32]

whisper: what the purpose of the contnuous cycle? I said it above: to experience your connection with 'God'

Heaven is the presence of the Devine, I agree with you...but I didn't understand the rest of your post.  Have a feeling we're talking about the same thing though...lol!

[whispers_of_fire]

Crystelle,
Okay,Luv, let me ask you this, why do you believe we come back/get reincarnated if we already know the Presence or Absence of the Divine?

Sorry, I was elucidating my view on the Afterlife and how it maybe different for each person and so might to Hell be kind of tailored to the individual*I do think we're on the same page though ;D

[MoonChild]

Whispers, the coming back is not to gain the awareness of the existence of the Divine, but to realize the Divine within us.

[Cristelle32]

yes Moonchild, that's it!  I couldn't have put it any better!

The ultimate goal, Whisper, is to realise the devine in us.

We've always been there, always had that connection.  Our task is simply to experience it fully through life

[mellilotflower]

individual hells... reminds me of an episode of the twilight zone...

Can I ask Whispers, as possibly an aside... how is an afterlife an end?  Surely reincarnation is a form of afterlife, as its after this life.  As would be, then, moving onto a higher (or lower) plane of existance be an afterlife, but one which is a continuance of this.
We have this idea of a goal, of an ultimate heaven (for want of a better word) which is as high as we can get, where we'll stay for all time once we're there... but we're human, we're people and I don't think any amount of lives is going to drum out the "the grass is always greener on the otherside" idea.  if there is any kind of afterlife, we'll always be waiting to live that and get onto the next...

I think that's making sense and saying what I want it to...
The idea of eternity turns my stomach, it sets me quaking, the very thought of forever...*shudders*.  Eternity in any amount of lifetimes would be hell to me, and being stuck in a cycle of living is just as bad.

This is similar, I think to what a few of the greeks thought... this idea of circles.  On one hand we have Panta Rhei- all things in flux, but many greek philosophers found it hard to accept that some things weren't permanent.  And so they believed that their were tiny litle things (atoms) that were permanent.  And the world was made up of cycles of these atoms becoming different things... their were sould atoms as well you see, and so they would live over and over again... if you catch my drift (see Sophies World for a clearer description)
So anyway... they had this idea that the circle of life (because we like stealing phrases from disney films) was permanent, and yet all things were in flux, and so the cirle of life must have been in flux too, and not permanent...
All of which, I was trying to use to logically prove that nothing was permanent- but I'm a little rusty with my logic, its been a year now filled with school and common sense... this is why I need to study it at uni... any who...

[Cristelle32]

wow Melli...long post, but yes, I don't like the word 'eternal' either.  sounds very canonical, doesn't it?

I believe that life is a cycle and that our universe will come to an end eventually, just to begin all over again!  And this cycle will repeat itself again and again.  

I also think that once you've reached spiritual enlightement, you can choose to re-start the process from stratch....

[MoonChild]

my belief is that once we reached the spiritual enlightment, we dont need to get into the "recycle" bin ever again, because we unite with THE ONE!

[Cristelle32]

I believe the same Moonchild. only a very limited number of us ever managed to reach that stage - the ones that spring to mind right now are Buddha, Jesus Christ, Joan of Arc, Mahatma Ghandi....

[MoonChild]

It is also believed that after a certain learning cycles, and the agonies ;D we go thro due to Karma, the reincarnation stops and the soul gets back to the ONE.

[randystreu]

i think ethan hawke said it best in "before sunrise" (yeah, i've seen it. shut up.) i don't have the exact quote, but basically he asked, if we are all reincarnated souls, but our population now is many times that of long ago, where did all the souls come from? were they just waiting? are we now only partial souls?

it's an interesting question...

[shellas13]

That's actually a very good question, Randi, and for what it's worth, I don't think that all the souls that are here now WERE the same souls that lived in another life. There are zillions of stars out there, lol, with lost of possibilities of other life forms...so why couldn't it be like an inter-galatic-universal exchange of souls? Like, someone on planet Tylathorna dies and gets sent to Earth cause they need to learn Earthling habits and someone from THIS planet gets sent to another one to learn of THEIR culture so to speak? It's already a global village now in this world, lol, so why not have a Universal Village as well? Just some thoughts I have when I've alone too long...;D

[Cristelle32]

we're one soul.  we've always been.  the only difference between me and you is that a different type of consciousness inhabits this body and your body.

Soul is energy and a kind of energy that doesn't know concept of time and space.  So there's a perfect reason (which I don't know)why so many souls decided to live as a physical entity at this time but simply that the time, historical and cultural situation were right for them to come into being.

We've also got to remember that in the past many more people used to die younger due to malnutrition and disease.  

Think about at what rate have people died on the planet in the past 4,000 yrs (only) when mortality rate was so high.

At the same time, I'm not justifying my answers, just thinking your question out and there could be lots of different answers to that.

It could well be that these souls never reincarnated before, or that they reached what is called the state of Nirvana, and started the cycle all over again....

[shellas13]

*psst...Cristelle...can I change my answer?? I think yours is much 'neat'-er than mine! ;D*