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Wiccans/Pagans


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#1 rockyroo

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Posted 10 March 2004 - 07:16 PM

Could someone please tell me what the difference is?  Thanks!

#2 MoonChild

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 04:58 AM

Wiccans worship the Nature and all of the energy and beings in it. Wiccans try to attune themselves with nature and the energies.
Paganism is actually a term that encompases many different religions like Shamanism, Wiccan etc.
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#3 rockyroo

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 05:37 AM

Thanks!

#4 trudy_causey

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 08:01 PM

can someone tell me what a five fold salute is in wicca?

#5 Willow

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 09:27 PM

Five-fold Kiss (Five-fold Salute)  
The witches' ritual salute with kisses, on each foot, on each knee, on the lower abdomen, on each breast and on the lips, eight kisses in all. Normally used only within the ritual Circle.  
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#6 UnkleBunny

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 11:52 AM

i know that it can sound confusing.. but a lot of people jsut group all nature based, or polythesitic faiths, into the pagan moniker... unfortunatly, a lot of the hardliner Christans use the word pagan, negittavely, to describe a "heretic" or someone "unclean"... a lot of fundementalist church even class Catholics as Pagan, although that is wholly innaccurate.... pretty much using the term Nature based faith, works nicely.

EDIT: ok, ok, so I'm a bit of a whacko when it comes to this, as I am a medicine talker, and recently someone tried to lump me in with a group of "witches" in the area, that are nothing more than a bunch of kids, dressing up like goths, and playing "the Craft" (trust me, they named themselves after the characters, and all but act the movie out...) also growing up, my family was the subject of a local church's wrath, and the pastor attempted to use us, to scare his flock... so I'm a little sensitive on the subject.. sorry.

#7 maharet

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 04:29 PM

Okay, did some research and asked a couple theologians and there is a vast difference between polytheistic religions and pagan religions.

Pagans worship the four elements, or more if they consider more as part of the grand scheme. Polytheistic religions have deities and are therefore more "mainstream" religions.

Just thought you all would like to know.

#8 UnkleBunny

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 12:43 AM

well then, Wiccans wouldn't exactly be pagans, either, as most at least worship, and respect, the Lord, and Lady, or some aspect of them.... many also call to a specific pantheon, depending on thier faith.... mostly, paganism, is called so, more on its lack of a permenent established center of worship in the community,wheras, many other polytheist faiths, (such as Hindu, and many others) have large, ancient temples, and such...also another definng factor, is that most pagan faiths, are actually revivals, that were kicked into gear, in the 60's based on a few papers someone found, and decided to start a religion around. (I do not mean to be offensive... but a good deal of today's "Wiccans" are the classic read one book, and are instant experts in it.... I know this isn't true for all of them, so please don't burn me at the stake, or anything.((yet another joke, from one ploytheist, to another...)))

now marahet, what you are describing, is closer to my faith, Shamanism, or Druidiam...in fact, I myself, am primarily an earth worshipper, along with honoring, the sun, and moon, and sky...

#9 mellilotflower

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 04:08 AM

Paganism is any of a very broad set of religious beliefs and practices characterized by polytheism and less commonly animism. Many pagan religions are based on nature, and these are also called nature-based religions. Paganism predates modern monotheism, although its origins are lost in prehistory. In one well-established sense, paganism is the belief in any non-monotheistic religion, and in this sense it is often used pejoratively by adherents to monotheistic religions (such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam) for adherents of non-monotheistic religions.

Wicca is a Neopagan religion founded by the British civil servant Gerald Gardner in the 1930s. Gardner claimed that the religion was a survival of matriarchal religions of pre-historic Europe, taught to him by a woman named Dorothy Clutterbuck. Many believe he invented it himself, drawing on such sources as Aradia: Gospel of the Witches by Charles G. Leland, Freemasonry and ceremonial magic; and while Clutterbuck certainly existed, Ronald Hutton concludes that she is unlikely to have been involved in Gardner's Craft activities.

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#10 MoonChild

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 06:34 AM

has Alister Crowley played any role in the formation of Neo Pagan religions?
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#11 mellilotflower

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 06:51 AM

Aleister Crowley affected most of modern mysticism and paganism simply by being so well known.... I don't think he had any direct input into wicca- but he was a big player in the rivival scene of the 19th century and wrote a lot of texts that have affected a lot of people.

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#12 7th

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 02:21 PM

wow...so much to learn....

#13 MoonChild

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 11:29 PM

but haven't Crowley's fame made neo paganism kinda cult oriented? Haven't it made things a bit towards the black side?
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#14 mellilotflower

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 03:37 AM

Crowley was very into the idea that sex and that sort of love was the key to spirituality... the whole sex magick thing.  A lot of neopaganism doesn't involve that, but has the stigma of it still because of Crowley.
I'm not sure, but I don't think neither Crowley nor neopagans would have said they were towards the black side, though Crowley did deliberately call himself the beast from the book of revelations and he identified greatly with the number 666...
And if by cult you mean secretive, a little selective in its members, then yes.

The point which I should first wish to understand is whether the pious or holy is beloved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is beloved of the gods.

Sonnet XCIVBut if that flower with base infection meet,The basest weed outbraves his dignity:For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds

#15 Willow

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Posted 14 March 2004 - 07:32 AM

Aleister did belong to a coven, though even there he wasnt welcomed and was dismissed due to his attitude toward women, failure to attend rituals on a regular basis and his personal ego & sexual perversion(the priestess of his coven described him as a "a dirty-minded, evilly-disposed and vicious little monster" Moon, he was dubbed by the press "The Wickedest Man in the World" because of his alleged satanic goings on, but it was found out later that many of the allegations were false and were no more than press sensationalism..this is prolly why most ppl connect him to the darker side(other than identifying himself with the number of the beast, as melli mentioned prior)he also wrote a fictional book based on his attempts to beget a child "Moonchild" (just couldnt resist since its Moon thats inquiring about him ;D)
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