32 replies to this topic

[MoonChild]

well, thanks Melliot and Willow. I have a specific reason to enquire more of Alister, since I am kinda attracted about his "works" ;D It isn't about the interest of the dark side, but I feel there was something more worthwhile with Crowley's works. I also agree about the media sensationalism, perhaps someday we will know

[Vampchick21]

As I understand it, Crowley was involved with The Order of the Golden Dawn, a ceremonial magic group in the 19th century that had many famous people involved in it, until they kicked him out.  I can't recall off the top of my head the reason why.  And his works are all centered in High Magick and Ceremonial Magick, and at times, I'm sure he liked to tease the more mainstream.  His work is interesting, and not nearly as dark as some suppose (at least, the parts of them that I've read).  They are, however, highly ritualistic when compared to average rituals performed by Wiccans.  Of course, I've seen some very ritualistic Wiccan rituals.

But Ceremonial Magick and High Magick is different from Wicca and Paganism in some respects.  Although I suspect some aspects of Wicca are drawn from Ceremonial Magick and from various pre-Christian religions (of which neo-paganism is drawn from).

Ummm...did I just repeat myself in there somewhere?  lol

[UnkleBunny]

well they kicked him out, for being a filthy bugger. mostly, High, and Cerimonal magic, isn't as much a religion, as it is just means of harnessing power... I don't exactly agree with it.

[Vampchick21]

I figured it was for being a filthy bugger...lol...I just didn't want to say for sure as I couldn't remember.  And you're right, The Golden Dawn wasn't a faith or religion per say.  

[mellilotflower]

I got the impression that they he and a few others left the golden dawn because they didn't agree with some of their practices and beliefs... that could have been the idea that Crowley wanted more sex rituals... but yeah.
They went on to create the silver star, a rival organisation which was actually in latin but I can't remember the latin for silver star... Crowley left that too and went to set up a monestary type place, only with more sex.

[NocturnalCantaloupe]

Once you get past the fact that he was a mad nutball of the most  looniness, then what you ahve left is genious.  I read a few of his works concerning Yoga and I feel they are dead on.  In my mind he "got it". It's too bad he  "got it" for the wrong reasons.  I'd love to stud yhis work, more for "know they enemy" than anything else, but my subconscious can't stomach it yet, I get very oogy feeling when trying to read it.  It is extremely powerful I think, I do give caution to anyone that considers studying it.  it's some potent stuff.  Summoning demons and the like is not something to be trifled with no matter what your beliefs.

Over all, he was a genious, but a mad one at that... funny how it always seems to be that way.

[Ravenwood]

Genious is the fine line between sanity and madness.Didn't he leave a portal open at a country house he,Crowley,owned?

[MoonChild]

yes I too have heard of that. I guess sonewhere in Italy!

[anasuya]

You ask ten different people who practice "alternative religions" what the difference is between witchcraft/wicca/paganism, you'll get ten different answers. One of the great things about these faiths is that it offers you a CHOICE. So, here's my take on it as I've understood it all these years.

Paganism, a non-Christian practice, based around nature worship. I agree with the post that suggested paganism didn't involve diety worship.

Wiccan, is a religion incorporating diety worship. Wether or not this is polytheistic is debatable, as I am a Wiccan, yet believe in only one supreme being (this one being having many faces- hence the many pantheons we've been introduced to throughout history).

Witchcraft, the practice of magick.

I figured I'd keep it short and sweet.

As for Crowley, I think his works are sound when they aren't sensationalized and beaten down from their true form. I employ his Lesser Banishing Ritual on occasion and it's worked great every time. Wether or not the man was insane is hardly the important factor when he's done great things in the community with his works.

BB, Ana

[whiskeysuicide]

Alleistor Crowley, i believe, was an alchemist.
not positive.
for all i know, i'm tihnking of a completely different person.

Vampchick21, on Mar 14 2004, 04:34 PM, said:

As I understand it, Crowley was involved with The Order of the Golden Dawn, a ceremonial magic group in the 19th century that had many famous people involved in it, until they kicked him out. I can't recall off the top of my head the reason why. And his works are all centered in High Magick and Ceremonial Magick, and at times, I'm sure he liked to tease the more mainstream. His work is interesting, and not nearly as dark as some suppose (at least, the parts of them that I've read). They are, however, highly ritualistic when compared to average rituals performed by Wiccans. Of course, I've seen some very ritualistic Wiccan rituals.

But Ceremonial Magick and High Magick is different from Wicca and Paganism in some respects. Although I suspect some aspects of Wicca are drawn from Ceremonial Magick and from various pre-Christian religions (of which neo-paganism is drawn from).

Ummm...did I just repeat myself in there somewhere? lol

i also read that he got kicked out for his habit of summoning "demons"
supposidly, he claimed to have seen like 300 at one time.

[greenman]

Quote

Although I suspect some aspects of Wicca are drawn from Ceremonial Magick and from various pre-Christian religions (of which neo-paganism is drawn from).

For the record Wiccan elements like the circle of protection do seem to be drawn from ceremonial references according to Wiccan authors such as Silver Ravenwolf. Just thought you might like to know.

Re Crowley: Io think he had some intersting ideas, but I believe that part of his problem was his ego, part of it was his drug use, and part of it was that he was ahead of his time.

[Morbid]

this is what I was taught.

Paganism is more a worship of nature, but also gods and goddesses of such.

Wicca is a religion that has more to do with the magical practice, and less with the gods.

Witchcraft is the one thats tough because it can encompass as it chooses, but it usually more a practice of magic, and practicing in old tradiotions, but it's a hard one to crack.

Edward alexander "Aliester" Crowley believed himself to be an incarnation of the god Horus. He wanted to make a new world order in which would have encompassed magic into everything... But a lot of his stuff I'd thik he was a crazy. but then again, he may have had some good ideas as well.

[AnythingButNormal]

Just saw some misinformation in a few earlier posts and I thought I'd clarify.

Firstly, Hinduism is NOT a polytheistic religion as it is often mistakenly called. Hindus worship Brahman, a single god; however, some Hindus will pray to personifications of that deity which are often mistaken as many gods. There are mother aspects, hunter aspects etc. As a guru once told me, "It is a crutch for those whose minds cannot comprehend the vast and unlimited ability of Brahman to take any form it desires."

Secondly, many of the Crowley rituals make reference through the use of gematria to Masonic and Luciferian traditions. That is perhaps where the "dark" stigma of Crowley's magic arises. I am not judging, merely pointing out that ancient symbols in both Masonry and Luciferian practices are the same, many of which derive from Babylonian times. Like Paganism, this "not christian" worship probably drew the ire of both the Catholic and Christian authorities.

[MoonChild]

AnythingButNormal, on Feb 27 2010, 04:02 AM, said:

Just saw some misinformation in a few earlier posts and I thought I'd clarify.

Firstly, Hinduism is NOT a polytheistic religion as it is often mistakenly called. Hindus worship Brahman, a single god; however, some Hindus will pray to personifications of that deity which are often mistaken as many gods. There are mother aspects, hunter aspects etc. As a guru once told me, "It is a crutch for those whose minds cannot comprehend the vast and unlimited ability of Brahman to take any form it desires."

Wonderful, great to see that clarification. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Ghost Hunters Guild]

MoonChild, on Feb 27 2010, 12:59 AM, said:

AnythingButNormal, on Feb 27 2010, 04:02 AM, said:

Just saw some misinformation in a few earlier posts and I thought I'd clarify.

Firstly, Hinduism is NOT a polytheistic religion as it is often mistakenly called. Hindus worship Brahman, a single god; however, some Hindus will pray to personifications of that deity which are often mistaken as many gods. There are mother aspects, hunter aspects etc. As a guru once told me, "It is a crutch for those whose minds cannot comprehend the vast and unlimited ability of Brahman to take any form it desires."

Wonderful, great to see that clarification. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I wish more people were educated on Wicca and Pagans. Most people get the wrong idea about it and they think because they see witches turning people into frogs on tv and riding on broomsticks that it can happen and that that's what we do. I just wish more people were educated on it and we were more understood by other people and other religions.