57 replies to this topic

[DSF]

I just stumbled across this site and information when I was surfing around.  Although I knew that most of the Amityville story was over dramatized, I didn't think it was to this extent.

Read through the information on this site and let me know, do you think this is accurate and do you think it has hurt the field of parapsychology as this person states?

Felt this belonged on the Skeptics board as it is debunking a myth.

http://chatanuga.org/Amityville.html

[Catlara]

I think it has hurt the field, simply because the stories told by the second family had created such excitement, and then make the studies a mockery to all skeptics.

[Aurelia]

I'm not going to place too much empasis on that website.  The narrator seems to like to use the word "probably" and "coincidence"...it's not a scientific investigation to say the least.  I was looking at finding something more substantial.  He does make some good points, such as the time of death, and descrepencies in their stories.   However, I believe most of everything else he said, to be based on opinion.  There will be people that will look at that and take everything he says without a grain of salt, and that could hurt the field a lot.  

[DSF]

I understand what your saying in that it wasn't an actual scientific investigation that he conducted.  But he does bring up some interesting facts that made me think twice about the whole thing.

I always took the Amityville thing as a factual event, especially after reading the Warren's account of things.  But some of the points brought up, especially with the discrepencies between the editions of the book, make me wonder a bit.  There have been many other cases of "fake" paranormal happenings in order to turn a profit, what if this was the biggest hoax?  

There was a lot on that site that just makes me pause and wonder.  I saw the map of the land the house is on.  It is a small lot and is close to neighbors....why didn't anyone in the neighborhood know what was going on?  If they heard the gunshots from the original murders, why didn't they hear any of the happenings in the house?

I am curious, is there a family living in the house now?  Or is the house empty?

Has anyone read Dr Stephen Kaplan's book?  I know the rumors of a feud between him and the Warrens and that could be possible motivation for the hoax accusation made by him, but I still have questions.  The points brought up on that website just made me question this whole thing.....is it real?

[DSF]

Okay, now I am even more confused!  I went to the Warrens site and read their account of Amityville.  It seems like everyone is slinging mud.  Is there anyway to find an independent study of the facts so that I can make up my own mind?

[Midnyte69]

ok... several theories abound....

1. Kaplan was disgruntled because of not being allowed into the house.

2. It is highly likely that Kaplan instigated the Hoax rumours due to his disgruntledness.

3. The Warrens were the ONLY investigators to actually enter the property and conduct ANY type of investigation.

4. The Warrens are the only people to actually have photographic evidence of their investigation and the insides of the house.

5. There is a very good photograph of a little boy with glowing eyes that was taken during this investigation with a time lapse camera aimed towards the bedrooms when no children were in the house. The little boy appeared in between blank photos. (I actually scoured the net looking for this pic and cannot find it... if anyone knows where it is or has it on file... please let me know.)

6. The Lutzes have said in interviews that Jay Anson did take liberties with their story for the book to sell more copies as well as the movie going a bit farther. (Such as... there is no well that is a gateway to Hell... the walls did ooze slightly, but it was a greenish ooze and not red as well as the amount of the ooze was punched up quite a bit.)

7. The new owners have given the house a facelift to keep it from being so easily recognizable and have stated that they have encountered no supernatural activities since they have moved in. (This could be because they don't care if they have ghosts and want to stay out of the public light or because there is nothing going down at 112 Ocean Ave.)

In conclusion.... It appears that the answer to this question lays somewhere in the middle. Did something actually happen in the Amityville house?... Probably. Was it to the extent that has been reported by the Warrens and Jay Anson as well as the Lutzes?... Probably not. Everyone wants to make a name for themselves in one way or another. I think that there was some paranormal activity in this house and there still may be goings on that have not been reported. However, I highly doubt that the red room oozed red blood or a pig was outside the childrens window. Heck... even I had a terrible time with flies in my house this summer... but that's because we have children and a guini pig cage that was not cleaned often enough. Satan visiting the Severn's? No. Just a lot of flies.

Of course this is all just my oppinion... it could be wrong.

[gowie2hotty]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the bitter disgruntledness, it just seems like hes spewing sour grapes after not being allowed on the premesis

[secretsign]

Did anyone see the special in Oct. on the tube about the hoax? It made ya stop and think.If it was a hoax someone had a good ideal with a money making scheme.I personally don't think the Warrens would have any part in something like that.Since that has been their lifes work to try and prove the basicly unproveable.It would negate all they strived for.It doesn't fit you must equite.

[Midnyte69]

Ok,

Well seeing as this is the forum for skeptics... I'll play Devil's Advocate.

***DISCLAIMER***(By the following, I mean NO disrespect towards the Warren's... their occupation... their professionalism... their investigations... or the genre as a whole in ANY way!!! I am also not implying IN ANY WAY that what I am about to write about has actually happened... nor am I saying that the Warren's have done anything of a shady or distrustful manner.)

Now that - that's out of the way... It is entirely possible that the Warren's have made the entire thing up. They are human beings and they are working within a genre that could easily be capitalized upon should there be an investigation done on a person or property that could lead others to believe that conclusive proof has been discovered of the existance of life after death from that investigation.... whew, that was a mouthful.

They are investigators in a genre that is very difficult to provide irrefutable evidence for pretty much any type of occurance. I have seen very little to no video evidence of paranormal or poltergeistic activity. I saw one video of a door closing 'by itself'. I have seen a video of a chair being pushed out from underneath a table by 'unseen hands'. Unfortunately... I've also seen lots of movies with wonderful special effects where men are able to float through space. Unfortunately... the videos I've seen have occurances that would be easily duplicated without all the "Hollywood Magic." The door could have had a string attached to it and while the video was rolling someone on the other side of the door pulled it shut. The chair could have been pushed out from under the tabe by someone slightly out of camera range. And yet... quite a few people not only believe that it is an accurate portrayal of spiritualistic activity... but to them you cannot convince them otherwise.

A person, having an accute imagination or happenings that have no ready explanations... could very well be led to believe whole heartedly that what they are experiencing is something supernatural. And a conman or conwoman (and I digress once again... the only reason I am using these terms is to make a point... not to sully the names of, nor imply that the Warren's are these types of people... but rather just using them as an example of my theory.) would be able to convince anyone that their snakeoil products are the best in the world... and people would buy it. Even if 'creating' a manifestation would help them in their cause.

It is conceivable therefore... that the Warrens could have douped the world into thinking that things did happen... in order to gain financial benefits and popular acceptance... even when they didn't happen. It's unfortunately human nature to be desirous of being the best in any particular field... and especially in this field... where we know that magician's can walk through walls and saw a lady in half... our eyes believe what we want them to believe.

Due to their involvement with this extremely famous case... they have made a name for themselves and have possibly been able to continue in their investigations with that newfound noteriety. So wether the Warren's did or did not fabricate the story in whole or in part... at least the very idea of it's possibility that they did... is always going to be there.

This is just an oppinion... as always... I could be wrong.

[secretsign]

Well I can say one thing for ya ,you have good approche to your oppion and that is a breath of freash air

[Aurelia]

Your sentiments and ideas were very well thought out, and very nicely put, midnyte.  We all appreciate this type of skeptism.  

[psychoblonde]

Wow,

I had never even thought that this would be possible.  I just took the whole story at face value.  i have read the book and seen the movie.

I don't know much about the Warrens, never really had a reason to doubt them, but this makes me think twice about it.  

And I wonder if this guy really does have a "fued" going on with the Warrens.

This whole paranormal world is a strange thing indeed

[MoonChild]

What is all these Maybe's!!!! Probably's!!!!! Hey, this is absolute nonsense! Nothing could be derived after going thru that information!

Ater hearing all these, what I feel is that there is a bit of fact and fiction attached to Amittyville! Probably, there was some activity and presence, perhaps something undesirable which the Lutzes have talked about. But as in any case, the publisicing of the details made a mees of everything. And NEVER TRUST THE MEDIA!!!!!! They blow up things!!!

And Hey! It is all about MONEY $$$$$ Honey!


But is there anyone who have access to some authentic information about Amittyville?

[krcguns]

I think that the entire thing was blown out of proportion just for the bucks.  What about the newpaper guy..I can't remember his name right now.  ;D  I also don't think, or know of any other investigation inside the house.  That would be a wonderful thing...think the new owners would let us!!?? ;D

[maharet]

Parapsychology and paranormal investigation are too controversial for anyone to ever receive a straight answer. However, the common thread I've noticed between Amityville and the Pittston, Pa. incident is the ghosts followed the house owners to their new homes. Also, they weren't simply ghosts, they were demonic instruments in the accounts provided by the Warrens.

Do I believe the Warrens? The accounts from them are too feel-good and don't seem entirely credible.