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Who said Orbs are ghosts?


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#1 Rockhauler2k1

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 02:54 PM

I know the term orb and use it quite frequently myself but I've always been curious as to its orgin as it applys to paranormal activity.  ???

I know the definition as do we all .  ::P

Orb :

1 : any of the concentric spheres in old astronomy surrounding the earth and carrying the celestial bodies in their revolutions
2 archaic : something circular : CIRCLE, ORBIT
3 : a spherical body; especially : a spherical celestial object
4 : EYE
5 : a sphere surmounted by a cross symbolizing kingly power and justice

I have been looking for a long time to find the origin of the term . I'd like to know who looked at a photograph and excalimed " I got an orb " . I realize that the term fits in regards to the shape of the energies that grace our lenses but who says an orb is a spirit or ghost? Whos to say that the phenomenon we capture on film aren't naturally occuring energies that exist in the atmosphere? Quntam physics is full of explainations of the sort. Electrical impulses and the like.

I'd like some help with this one.
I know what some of us think they are , but I'd like to know who coined the term along with ectoplasam and ectomist.

All spirits and ghosts are hallucinations in that they defy the realm of naturally occuring events. I use the term hallucination in that context , not as a type of symptom associated with mental illness. Witnessing and event that we have no business witnessing is indeed a halucination.

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#2 Rockhauler2k1

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 04:51 PM

Ok here is the definition of ectoplasam .

Ectoplasm: A subtle living matter present in the body of a medium, and which is capable of assuming various semi-solid or solid states, which can be, and have been felt, and photographed. Primarily drawn from materialisation mediums, and to a lesser extent non-mediums, to "clothe" deceased, etheric persons.

Still looking for the origin of orb ???

I actually found a group that claims to have coined the term orb. How can they claim to have coined the term when the existance of said orbs has not been proven as paranormal? I think it must be a dilusion of grandure on their part .

Here is the site : http://www.paranorma...ost_theory.html

And yet another related term ( related to Ectoplasam )


Teleplasm: From the Greek "tele", meaning "far" or "at a distance", and from the Greek "plassein" meaning "to mould" or "shape". A teleplasm is something moulded or shaped. It is defined as shapeless cloud-like or semi-fluid substance, present in the body of a psychically gifted person. It can be externalized and solidified into various shapes and forms apparently by the action of the will of the trance-control. Some of the teleplasmic forms may appear crude and even repulsive; others are very beautiful. Teleplasm can appear as fingers, hands, faces, hair, partial and full human bodies. It then disintegrates and disappears and is re-absorbed into the medium's body. It has been seen in its various aspects in red light, and good white light, and has been photographed many times by investigators such as William Crookes, W. J. Crawford, Mme. Bisson, Gustave Geley, Albert von Schrenck-Notzing, Eugene Osty, Hans Gerloff, Crandon, Glen Hamilton and others.


Rockhauler2k1

P.S.  Im still looking  8)
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#3 ohioparanormal

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 06:35 PM

A near copy of the text from the paranoramal texas page is available on the IGHS website..

www.ghostweb.com/orb_theory.html

I had always blamed Dr. Dave for creating the orbs are ghosts connection, he has a way of jumping to conclusions without anything but his word to back it up.

I'm not sure who coined the term ectoplasm, but I can tell you its roots are back before the Spiritualist movement and has been used as far back as the late 1800s.

#4 Rockhauler2k1

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 07:46 PM

I signed their guestbook and reminded them that they were somewhat dilusional . How can someone coin a term for something that has never been proven or disproven conclusivly?

I always believed that the term had no real meritt. I just wanted to know who started the whole thing. My impression was that the term was more than several years old. Ive been around 11 ( doing research ) and am certain that I had seen the term used long before Dr Dave became anyone and he still isnt much by my estimation . He sells ghost hunting franchises and information like McdDonalds sells hamburgers.

This only my opinion, I dont speak for those who feel anything else. After all we are all entitled to our opinion.

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#5 Camille

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 09:43 PM

As you have undoubtedly turned up in your research, orbs are not new to the supernatural vernacular.  The term dates back to at least WW II, when military personnel (U.S. & German) reported what later came to be referred to as "foo fighters," or strange, flying orbs of light. However, they were thought to be alien in nature, not ghosts.  In fact, for the most part, orbs have been associated with UFO sightings.  For ex.: orbs have been frequently photographed at crop circle sites. (no natural explanation for those, I'm sure  :P)

I believe that the "orbs as ghosts" theory is relatively recent.  No, I do not know who, specifically, came up with that concept.  I researched it as well, and could not find the answer.  The IGHS may very well have done so, and I tend to think they started the trend based upon the timeline.  But if they did, the idea is very unoriginal, as it simply piggybacks a concept that was already accepted by supernatural enthusiasts.

On a related note, I came across the website of the Toronto Ghosts and Hauntings Research Society, who have recently stepped up to the plate and publicly declared: No more orb and mist photos!

Here is a link to their "The Orb is Dead...." webpage:

http://www.torontogh...rg/finalorb.htm

Although I respect their bravery, I fear that doing so is going to prove bad for business for them.  :-/
"What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite."Bertrand Russell"You're going to go to McDonald's... you'll order an Egg McMuffin and some coffee... WAIT! They're going to forget your extra salt! Remind them to give you salt, please!!"Ed Closser, Trivial Psychic

#6 Rockhauler2k1

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Posted 15 June 2003 - 06:09 AM

Camille,

Thanks for the information . The WW2 use was something I didnt manage to find in my travels on the web. It is interesting indeed . Several factors must be taken into consideration based on the appearance of these balls of light.

First, I'll state the obvious. Large numbers of deaths , of course, are a normal part of fighting wars. If the phenomenon occured in Europe only then these balls being spirits or ghosts is indeed unlikely but one never knows for sure. The enviroment during that time was definitly condusive to paranormal activity considering the statistics.

I did read somewhere along the line about orbs and their association with UFOs but that was more recently.

I also checked out Torontos web page and I do agree with you that their exclusion of orb and mist photos , while brave and cutting edge, will detract from the eye candy people visit paranormal sites to view.

By my estimation , its pretty patheitc that people don't question the obvious. I have seen it way too often in my time as a researcher. I guess the need to believe outweighs common sense in more cases than not.

Orbs many or may not be paranormal. I have no conclusive proof either way to date nor does anyone else to the best of my knowlege.  :-/

Thanks again ,

Rockhauler2k1
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#7 JimTheBrit

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Posted 15 June 2003 - 08:52 AM

Rockhauler2k1 Whos to say that the phenomenon we capture on film aren't naturally occuring energies that exist in the atmosphere? Quntam physics is full of explainations of the sort. Electrical impulses and the like.

Energies and electrical impulses aside, it’s known that orb effects can be the result of much more mundane circumstances - the combination of naturally occurring weather conditions and the imperfect technologies of a camera, for instance (see Camille's link above) How then, do people claiming orbs are the spirits of the deceased, justify such claims?

#8 Rockhauler2k1

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Posted 15 June 2003 - 01:59 PM

My point exactly Jim   :P

As a matter of fact many wont touch this post with a 10 foot pole because it questions the very belief system that they have come to depend upon for their facts.

Rockhauler2k1

P.S. I have always had the natural ability to question everything. Its in my very nature to do so . I feel personally that not to ask is living in ignoracne.  :-/
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#9 SpiritsOfMd

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Posted 17 June 2003 - 01:09 PM

I personnally have really never believed that an "orb" is a paranormal type of thing, well maybe just alittle bit if thats possible, lol :P  If what we call orbs were paranormal in nature there wouldnt be a need for us on GV anymore, lol :(.  Just as I am trying to prove that ghosts exist, I would like someone to prove to me that orbs are spirits ;)  
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#10 krcguns

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Posted 17 June 2003 - 04:10 PM

It is true that it all comes down to a belief system.  Who's to say that orbs aren't paranormal?  If it is a simple atmospheric condition...prove that.  It would seem that atmosphere would be much more simple to prove than the paranormal.  There should already be plenty of reproducable pics and orbs shouldn't even be a consideration for paranormal study.  I also would like to ask that these people that do prove it also provide shots of orbs with faces on them like the one in our "new old house" thread that comes complete with eyes, gaping mouth and a left ear.  

Just something to ponder on those long rainy nights! ;D
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#11 Rockhauler2k1

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Posted 17 June 2003 - 05:38 PM

While I respect everyones right to choose and do agree that a belief system plays a large part.   ;)


The point is simply that there is a much greater  possibility that orbs are naturaly occuring phenomenon , such as photographic error , electrical impulse, dust , moisture, bugs, reflective flashback , the cameras own iris and so on.  :(

The odds are stacked greatly against the inexperience and ignorance of most ghosthunters no matter how many orb photos are found to be unusual. The fact remains that no orb has ever been proven to be a ghost or spirit conclusivly but the previously mentioned mistakes are without a doubt conclusive. :-/

Im not saying its not possible for orbs to be paranormal , as anything is possible . All I'm saying is that until it is proven conclusivly one can't help but question the nature of their presence in photos as suspicious. ::P

Not to do so would be a self betrayal. The truth is what I seek after all , and in order to understand the truth I have to ask the tough questions and find answers. Even if the answers aren't what I was hoping to find.

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#12 ohioparanormal

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Posted 17 June 2003 - 09:42 PM

OK, now let me stir the pot a bit...

Beyond orbs, the whole belief in ghosts is just that...it's a belief system. There have been countless encounters and personal experiences over the last few centuries and even with our "advanced" technology of the 21st century we do not have a shred of empirical evidence to back up a single claim scientifically.

The whole society that surrounds us (IGHS, books, tv shows about ghosts, this message board) is based purely on our own belief and the belief in other's claims. We laugh when we look back at the spirit photographers of the early 1900s and how silly people were to believe in the fake photos that were taken, or by the channelers of the time that would set up elaborate hoaxes to spur belief in the afterlife. We are just a current version of those times. Even with our expensive cameras and hi-tech recording equipment nothing has changed, the society of the paranormal is still 90% belief, and 10% hoax or misinterpretation.

Strong words from someone who helps real people through paranormal situations. I have seen things I can not explain, define, verify, or replicate. All the theories in the world are meaningless unless someone is willing to investigate their own claims, establish a method of study, and let others verify their own outcomes.

#13 flyingorb

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Posted 17 June 2003 - 09:53 PM

Hi All,

Well Rock, I have a 12 foot pole so I will put my 2 cents in.  

Agreed that most of the orb photos are caused by mundane processes, but that in itself is not conclusive.  

I have sometimes wondered if orbs may be a natural undiscovered plasma or electrical phenomena.  The Foo Fighters have been with us back to WWI (when we started flying in ernest), through WWII and into the space program.  Senator Glen confirmed that he had seen "something" around his spacecraft and seemingly it was not that uncommon for other astronauts to see "something" too.  The radical movements of the Foo Fighters rule out anything based on life as we know it.  Inertia is a bear and the radical movements would kill anything similar to us.  

As I wonder if lifeforms can exits in the fourth state of matter, I see animals reacting and staring at some orb photos.  I have captured an orb in infrared where its actions could be interpreted as intelligent.  I have captured one where a critter is encased in it that defies any reasonable mundane explanation.  Like KRC I also have seen faces in orbs.  I have seen orbs physicaly with my own eyes on some attempts to talk with spirits.  This cannot be explained unless I am demented,  always a possibility *snicker*.

What I am trying to say is that the phenomena of orbs may be mundane, a plasma lifeform, a spirit, or a combination of these and many other possibilities.  

The only sure thing about orbs is that they cannot be completely dismissed.  That would be unscientific. :-/
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#14 krcguns

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Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:06 AM

Ok...here is the photo that I talked about with the face.  I thought I would post it again here and maybe get an explanation of how the face appears in it if it is just "atmosphere".  Like flyingorb...I have also seen them with my naked eye.  Am I demented too??  Anyway...go ahead and please let me know what this is if it isn't anything paranormal.  This is a blow up of the original pic which I am also posting below.  
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#15 krcguns

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Posted 18 June 2003 - 06:13 AM

Here is the original pic that the orb above was taken from.  Take a look.  You can even still see the face here! ;D
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