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#31 Gregory

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 05:02 AM

and............talking about Astrology, we need to talk about Karma, re-birth, life, death, hmmmmmmmm is it getting complex?

Do we?  But not on an astrology thread, I should think.

We cannot talk about English Language without knowing ALL THE alphabets! And then comes less important thigns like Grammer, Structure et al. This is the same case with esoteric matters.


Actually, you can discuss grammer and structure without knowing any letters at all.

Ex: In English, honerary titles are added at the beginning of one's name.  In Japanese, they are added at the end.  I can say this despite not knowing Japanese.

We all know tides are influenced by the moon, so obviously the larger planets have bigger influence.

No; the planets are too far away to effect the tide.

This surely affect our body rythms, thought process, without doubt.


And now, for your reading pleasure, the Amazing Gregory will doubt that which cannot be doubted.  Stay tuned.

Astrology can never be attributed wrong, but the human factor in deriving the process can be.


And that, as rustypuch pointed out, is one reason astrology is not a science; no falsifiability.
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#32 MoonChild

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 05:05 AM

:-X the last post, for me I think,  was made out of confusion! It is pretty easy to come up with arguments, yeah, and I find it is not worth addressing - atleast at this point of time.  :)



and that is exactly the point. You are seeing only the Astrology thread here, where I see it different, where this needs further deep explanations on the other aspects of existence!

Yeah, the problem is that people who don't even know the alphabets are trying to expertize on the grammer! They knows that addessing part and try to incorporate in into everything and believes they are know-all's! Ha, how the world moves!
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#33 Gregory

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 06:01 AM

:-X the last post, for me I think,  was made out of confusion! It is pretty easy to come up with arguments, yeah, and I find it is not worth addressing - atleast at this point of time.  :)

If you really want to annoy someone, entering into a debate and then telling them that their posts aren't worth responding to is a good way to start.  If you really don't think I'm worth talking to, fine, don't talk; but if you're going to talk, please don't talk rudely.

and that is exactly the point. You are seeing only the Astrology thread here


Actually, I read many of the threads on Ghost Villiage, and I have posted in most of the forums at one time or another.  But I can't for the life of me see what karma and rebirth have to do with astrology.  If you'd care to enlighten me, though, I'm all ears.

where I see it different, where this needs further deep explanations on the other aspects of existence!

So you've said, but I still don't see why, and thus-far you have refused to expound on it.

Yeah, the problem is that people who don't even know the alphabets are trying to expertize on the grammer!


I'm sorry, but I have no idea what point you're trying to get accross.  Please choose another metaphore.

Although if this is just another way of saying that I can't understand astrology without studying reincarnation, you could skip the metaphore and simply support that statement.

They knows that addessing part and try to incorporate in into everything and believes they are know-all's! Ha, how the world moves!


This is what is known as a "straw man."  Neither I, nor anyone else I have seen posting in this thread, have claimed to "know it all."  Most of them would probably admit, if asked, that they possess only the tiniest fraction of the world's knowledge.  So announcing that we don't (burning the straw man), while true, is irrelevant to the debate.
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#34 Rockhauler2k1

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 01:47 PM

Many arts of divination are based on astrology, not just charts and star gazing. Tarot and palmistry are based on astrology as well . I do find it interesting that the level of mathematical understanding during the time of its development was a bit primitive. Astrology is indeed based on math to some degree. Infinity being the 0 and then the rest of the numerical cards in a tarot deck through 72 representing different phases of life. For instance , the 9 of coins would represent money near or money recently earned while the 2 of coins would represent either money comming or a small amount . The meanings greatly depend upon the cards laid in addition to the type of spread used to divinate. There is the celtic cross , which is the most popular, the golden dawn spread which is a 15 card spread that reads like a story with the center representing the nature of the query. There are literally hundreds of ways to read.

What does all this mean you may ask? Nothing unless you depend upon the cards or the boogey man to tell your fourtune. I will admit that they are quite accurate if one is accomplished in their use, but this isnt usually the case. I have seen them read and have read them with great accuracy for total strangers but when it comes to loved ones or those close to me I am as blind as a bat. I dont even venture a guess as to their fate. I will also add that telling someone about potential outcomes can alter them ( the outcomes)greatly by warning the person of their path.
Usually I find myself telling someone something they already know in their heart but are either too affraid to act or lack the ability to make the decision up to the time of the reading. Tarot cards have been defined as evil and their use as bad. In my experience , they tell the truth about things that we dont want to face or change about ourselves or our circumstances.

Reincarnation has nothing to do with astrology by my estimation. I have studied the Golden Dawn and its practices for many many years and see no direct link between the two.

I must say though that you make some good points to Moon , Gregory but engaging in a conversation with someone who has deemed you unreachable is like shouting at a closed door . Moon has a right to live in his beliefs as do you. If they dont match up then its best to say live and let live and go on with the show .  :)



Just a few thoughts,

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#35 MoonChild

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 11:43 PM

MOON IS BACK!

hehe, well, wanted to post in last evening, but since I WAS foolish enough to have deleted myself, hhmmmmmm.. forget it!

The very first point I wanna make is - the word YOU as I have used does not have any personal reference!

And second - Astrology, Numerology, Reincarnation, Life, Death etc are all interrelated. we can talk a lot about Astrology, but what sense does it make if it does not adddress our LIFE? The explanations could be complicated yes, but obviously all these "gimmicks" ( of tarrots, numerology, astrology et al) and all those "science" (medicine, engineering et al) does not serve a meaning unless and untill it directly addresses the NEED of life.

Now talking about life, why are certain thigns happenning when it is not supposed to be? Or why are other thigns happenning when it is that APT time? Planets could be far away than the Moon, but lets not forhet about the magnetic energy they influences on our Mother Earth. So that means, the fluids in our body, even in a small manner IS AFFECTED by planets. This is surely affecting out thoughts and in turn our mood and then our DEEDS. If anyone can come up with a SATISFACTORY explanation why you or me DO CERTAIN thing the way we do :) yeah, I welcome! That means, there is always a chance or "unexplained" in whatever we explain or find out. It is easy to challenge WHAT IS, but difficult to explain the same!

Talking about Languages, Grammer and Alphabets, it is ananalogy. Knowing the sun signs IS NOT what astrology is all about. IF we dont know the planetary movements, their influence, whatever we READ FROM THE DAMNED sunday papers will never come true as far predictions are concerned.

Astrology is ALL based on the TIME of birth. And  the TIME is selected by WHATEVER HIGHER powers depending on the Karmic lessons and actions we are to face in life. Means, Reincarnation (thru the law of Karma) decides the entire course in life and that is what Astrology is all about.

And friends, I am open for debates, but not open for arguements. I am HUMAN  ;) and is infleuenced by my daily routine, business tensions, mood etc. That makes me BLUNT TOUNGUES at times. And I feel it is better to keep my BIG mouth shut at tose times, rather than invitng trouble thru my words. This is just ME and it is simple. I have come across lots in life and I am in the process of getting better emotionally every day. Life is throwing challenges yes, but I WANT CONTROL over myself. I am in GV not because I am a Ghost Hunter, but I am more interested in getting the knowledge in improving my Mental Faculties. And the way I see it - it is more of centralized. Means, all these PARANORMAL / SUPER NATURAL sutff are inter-related, so are the REAL LIFE in here!

Keep Smiling all and God Bless!

And I still say, the problem is that people who dont even try to learn the alphabets are trying to enforce grammer! :D That is the problem with the world in general. Look at politics, education, society in general........
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#36 Gregory

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 05:41 AM

MOON IS BACK!

Congratulations.

And second - Astrology, Numerology, Reincarnation, Life, Death etc are all interrelated. we can talk a lot about Astrology, but what sense does it make if it does not adddress our LIFE? The explanations could be complicated yes, but obviously all these "gimmicks" ( of tarrots, numerology, astrology et al) and all those "science" (medicine, engineering et al) does not serve a meaning unless and untill it directly addresses the NEED of life.


Just because two things talk about life doesn't mean that you need one to understand the other.  Biology and high-energy physics are both relevant to life, but you can learn and use one without the other.

Now talking about life, why are certain thigns happenning when it is not supposed to be? Or why are other thigns happenning when it is that APT time?

Because humans are naturally perverse?  Give us an example of what you're talking about, and I'll try to give a less flippant answer.

Planets could be far away than the Moon, but lets not forhet about the magnetic energy they influences on our Mother Earth.


I don't think so.  Electromagnetism is a more powerful force than gravity, but only on small scales.  Gravity is the only fundamental force to have a measurable effect over long distances.

Do all planets even have magnetic fields?

So that means, the fluids in our body, even in a small manner IS AFFECTED by planets. This is surely affecting out thoughts and in turn our mood and then our DEEDS.

Even if the magnetic fields of the planets were effecting the Earth, they would be so insignificant by the time they reached Earth that your refrigerator would be more influential.

If anyone can come up with a SATISFACTORY explanation why you or me DO CERTAIN thing the way we do :) yeah, I welcome!


You'll want to talk to a psychologist about this one.  At any rate, I do not consider astrology to be a satisfactory explanation.

It is easy to challenge WHAT IS, but difficult to explain the same!

It's even easier to challenge what isn't (astrology, for example).  But as I've said, psychology does a fair job of explaining human behavior.

Astrology is ALL based on the TIME of birth.


Even if I agreed with everything you've written so far, this still wouldn't make sense.

So the magnetic fields of the planets effect the liquids in our bodies and alter our behavior (I can't believe I just wrote that).  What does it matter when you were born.  The magnetic fields will effect everyone in the same way, regardless of their date of birth.  You need an explanation for how the date of birth permanently alters someone's behavior, but the explanation you give would only explain his behavior at the time of birth
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#37 MoonChild

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 06:03 AM

Thanks Greg for the welcome! :)

It is about perception buddy! Learning is VERY different from understanding!

So you mean to say I will need to come with evidence that all the planets and other celestial bodies do possess gravity or electromagnetic energy? And does your statement mean that Jupiter or for that matter Sun does not have any affect on Earth?

The time of birth is important, and IS IMPORTANT, since this is the time we have the first breath and the brain starts concious functioning. and this is the time when the planetary influence is imprinted. And the way out of this is to change your own magnetic vibration thru meditation and good deeds (whatever that means). Now don't tell me you feel good when you KNOW you are doing good, and bad when you KNOW it is bad. It all boils down to your own MIND and perception, but what makes our perception?

and........................... leave that psycologist alone.
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#38 Gregory

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 08:30 AM

So you mean to say I will need to come with evidence that all the planets and other celestial bodies do possess gravity or electromagnetic energy?


Obviously, all the celestial bodies exert some sort of gravitational force on the Earth (because gravity operates over infinite distance), but that doesn't mean that it has a significant effect:

http://www.skepticre...ogy/gravity.htm
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#39 MoonChild

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 08:47 AM

Obviously, all the celestial bodies exert some sort of gravitational force on the Earth (because gravity operates over infinite distance), but that doesn't mean that it has a significant effect:

http://www.skepticre...ogy/gravity.htm


:) ;) Before anything, please answer this! Are you a body with a Soul? Or are you a Soul with a body? I see it as "I" am a SOUL with a body.
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#40 Gregory

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 08:51 AM

:) ;) Before anything, please answer this! Are you a body with a Soul? Or are you a Soul with a body? I see it as "I" am a SOUL with a body.


A body with a soul, I think.  Why do you ask?
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#41 MoonChild

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 09:18 AM

well, if it is a Soul with a body, definitely the Soul has some significance after Death. But if it is a Body with a Soul, well, we all know the Body decomposes and that is it - the END! But is it so? If it is, then there is no point in knowing more about the esoteric matters - including Astrology. But if it is the other way, there is an open-ness to know what happens! :)
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#42 MoonChild

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 09:21 AM

Astrology is the science of cosmology as directly related to human affairs. The major premise of astrology is that the stars, planets, moon, asteroids and comets have a direct and indirect influence on everything we see in nature around us. This influence is all pervasive and all penetrating. From the ordering of the annual seasons to the differing regions of the earth, to the shaping of individual personality in the unconscious and conscious levels of existence, cosmic bodies have their all-pervading influences. Scientists have scoffed at this idea, but let us remember that astronomy was born out of astrology. The influence is many and varied and the answers to this are detailed. Just because we have become alienated from nature does nothing to remove us from the influence of nature; and cosmic influence is nature after all! We merely have the illusion of being above these things. Sometimes we receive gentle and not so gentle reminders of our true location in the vast scheme of cosmic things. But, all is not well in astrology. Even here we find a drift away from nature and increase in wild, sensational and groundless speculation. But bad astrology is like bad science insofar as it does not require much investigation to reveal the untruth of these things.

The discipline of astrology is the study of how the cosmos directly influences life on earth in general, and the course of human affairs unfolds in particular. Each and every part of the world developed a science of astrology unique for its own observations and experience. Today's calendars are a direct result of these processes. In particular, the study of the lunar and solar cycles were crucial in developing the myths associated with certain times of the year, unique for specific cultures and areas. To say that the sun and moon have no effect on our affairs is erroneous and even blindly stupid.

To believe in such concepts, as the planets have no effect on us, comes from our alienation from nature and the mall-centered approach to life where the effects of the diurnal, annual and other cycles become blurred in a haze of bright-lit artificiality. Those who are still by and large connected directly to nature know otherwise. The movement of the sun, moon, planets and minor bodies was so paramount, that entire major engineering programs were devoted to them and all that this entails. A look at Egypt and MesoAmerica displays that no effort was spared as far as respect for the cosmos was concerned. Now that we are at our position in history, new information has come to the fore. So then, how do all of these new revelations apply to astrology?

A look into chaos displays that there is recapitulation of the large in the small. Feedback processes between various parts continually shapes the direction of each and every part. Several types of phenomena are covered here and all of them figure in the outcome of any energy exchange. Very small inputs can have dramatic effects even over the relatively short term. Our planet is thus sensitively dependent upon even tiny influences. This being so, we who are utterly dependent upon the Earth, are absolutely shaped by all that it experiences from the cosmos around it. A question arises, where does heaven really begin? It begins in the very air you breath and that surrounds you and extends virtually infinitely outward from there into the cosmos at large. In the cosmic sense, a tiny influence can be the impact of 500-meter object into the ocean. It could be a solar induced electromagnetic storm that flattens our power grid. Though piddly by cosmic standards, to our view, these are enormous events. Complex phenomenons are extraordinarily difficult to predict because of this sensitivity. Need we say more?
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#43 MoonChild

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 09:22 AM

If no other thing offers direct proof of the astrological influence, then it has to be evolution as directed by major a minor cosmically induced conditions in the Earth environment. The Earth too, evolved out of the several stages of stellar and planetary development. The process continues to this day in the form of meteor showers and larger impacts,.

Charles Darwin described tides in his seminal work, Origin of the Species. The ocean tides are driven by the gravitational interaction between the oceans and the moon and sun. It has recently been determined that the sun and moon also trigger volcanic out flows due to the same tidal action on the molten magma within the Earth. This has the added action of creating tectonic change over the face of the Earth. The action of oceanic turbulence driven by the moon and sun allowed for the greatest diversity of life to evolve as a direct result. The effect shows up today in the cicadian rhythm of life including human, which is matched to the lunar sidereal "day". In the remote past, tides were much greater due to the closer proximity of the moon to the Earth.

The Evidence of cosmic connection is seen on the face of the Earth itself. We are becoming increasingly aware of the Earth's cataclysmic history from a variety of causes. The chief among these are destruction and creation events originating from impacts of small to large bodies. This of course has worked itself into historic myths and legends, which until recently, were regarded as interesting stories and no more, like the pulp science fiction of today that has little grounding in fact. But this is not the case. There is some reality that triggered stories of dragons, which are virtually universal in world myth. There is accumulating proof of world devastating floods and fires as well. Humanity has lived through some of the smaller cosmic born events and has passed it down to us today who read the accounts and scratch our heads over the true meaning behind these stories. Stories in the Bible and other sources are a type of warning, a prediction based on history, which is now being vindicated through the evidence of the aftermath of great events.

Established scientific proofs show the dynamic interaction of cosmos and humanity. In fact, if it were not for the great cosmic law of the differential, we could not exist in our present complexity. An energy gradient of some kind is required to make a dynamic phenomena work. This gradient can take the form of any kind of natural phenomena, just as long as there is a difference between two places in the natural environment. This is what ultimately lies behind feedback process from the quantum to the galactic.

Observation of the cosmos gives us plenty of insights of the true operative principles of astrology. From the endless phases of the moon and the cicadian beat of the tides to the cherished warming of the sun after a long and bleak winters discontent. Then there are the more subtle influences that often get lost in the complexity of everything that is simultaneously unfolding. The subtle and discrete gradations of Saturn's rings to the Kirkwood gaps in the asteroid belt all point to the interaction of gravity and resonance in orbital periods that work together to create discrete phenomena. Looking deep into the cosmos, we see banding occurring elsewhere around other stars, suggesting that planets are working to clear accretion disks in a discrete manner. The shifting curtains of the aurora are testament to the subtle sun driven changes in the Earth's magnetic field. Sometimes these changes are strong enough to disable our electrical grids and fry our computers. Human minds work on a foundation of electrochemical processes and are similarly influenced by changes in the electromagnetic environment, which are continuous and ongoing.

Studies have indicated that birds use the geomagnetic field to orient themselves in their migrations. A slight change in the geomagnetic field results in going off course and disaster. There is a human cycle that is generally matched to the solar cycles; and there are many. The strongest one to our awareness is the 11-year solar magnetic cycle. A whole science has evolved around this to forecast radio weather and also safety for astronauts.

Studies in Birth data accumulated for research indicate that there are personality specific traits induced by particular planets. This has now been demonstrated to be greater than chance though the process of stochastic statistic gathering and comparison of total results. Like the rest of the cosmos, humanity also functions in a discrete way in accordance to the complex web of universal laws. Statistics show that military, police and fire fighting types have Mars in crucial positions in their horoscopes. Similarly, politicians and actors have Jupiter placed in sensitive positions.

So then, what does this have to do with astrology? Everything is interconnected in a complex web of connection and feedback. We are only beginning to understand how things work in a host of ways, simultaneously with and within each other. Astrology was and is an attempt to define humanity and individuals based upon the complex natural cosmos upon which they are totally dependent. Simply stated, no cosmos, no nature, no humanity. The contemporary astrology must be dynamically connected with the reality of our environment and how that shapes each and every one of us in a complex manner.
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#44 MoonChild

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 09:23 AM

and also.... check this link

http://www.geocities.../behaviour.html
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#45 Gregory

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 09:38 AM

If it is, then there is no point in knowing more about the esoteric matters - including Astrology. But if it is the other way, there is an open-ness to know what happens! :)


Knowledge is important for its own sake, I blieve.
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