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Skeptics,Believers, What happens when you die?


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#1 flyingorb

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Posted 20 June 2003 - 05:45 PM

Skeptics, Believers, Skeptical Believers are all welcome.

Tell Me:

[move]What Do You Think Happens To You When You Die?[/move]

What is the light seen at the end of a long dark tunnel in many near death experiences?  God's Light? Retinal Shutdown? Something Else?

[glow=red,2,300]What do YOU think?[/glow]
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#2 MoonChild

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Posted 21 June 2003 - 12:02 AM

;D but who is dying? †;D lol

CHECK THIS OUT********************
copied information, but WHAT IS REAL?

Near-death experiences of Hindus
Pasricha and Stevenson's research
In 1986, researchers Satwant Pasricha and Ian Stevenson, documented 16 cases of Indian near-death experiences in the Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research (77,1 15-135). Their small sample shows, Indian and American near-death experiences resemble each other in some respects but differ in others. Subjects of Indian near-death experiences do not report seeing their own physical body during the near-death experience, although American subjects usually do. Subjects of Indian near-death experiences frequently report being taken to the after-death realm by functionaries who then discover that a mistake has been made and send the person back, whereupon he or she revives. In contrast, American subjects, if they say anything at all about why they revived, mention meeting deceased family members who told them to go back, or say they came back because of ties of love and duty with living persons or say they were told it was not their time to die.
Many people have asked me (the webmaster) why experiences, such as Hindu near-death experiences, are so different than western ones. The reason is because everyone has their own cultural and religious background by which they see their experience. Jody Long, a near-death researcher with NDERF, has put it best. She said, "One of the near-death experience truths is that each person integrates their near-death experience into their own pre-existing belief system." This important truth must be kept in the back of one's mind when reading these different reports.

An analysis of Hindu NDEs
The Hindu near-death experiences profiled here are typical of the cases studied in India by researchers Satwant Pasricha and Ian Stevenson. The subject does not view his or her physical body, as do many subjects of western near-death experience cases. Instead the subject is taken in hand by "messengers" and brought before a man or woman who is often described as having a book or papers that he or she consults. A mistake is discovered. The wrong person has been "sent for," and this person is then brought back by the messengers to his or her terrestrial life; or the subject is "pushed down" and revives. The error supposedly made is often a slight one, as a person of the same given name but a different caste, or someone living in a different but nearby village, should have died and been brought instead of the subject of the near-death experience. In six of their cases, the informants said that another "correct" person (corresponding to the subject's information from the "next world") did, in fact, die at about the time the subject revived; but the researchers did not verify those deaths.
In contrast, subjects of western near-death experiences usually give no reason (in psychological terms) for their recovery; if they do give one they may say that they revived because they decided to return of their own accord, often because of love for living members of their family. Sometimes they are "sent back" by deceased persons who tell them their "time has not yet come." Indian subjects sometimes report meeting relatives and friends in the "other realm" in which they find themselves, but these persons have nothing to do or say about the prematurity of the subject's death and a need for him or her to continue living. The idea of prematurity of death, or "your time has not yet come," occurs in the cases of both cultures; but the persons involved in sending the NDEr "back to life" differ.
All in all, researchers Pasricha and Stevenson uncovered 16 accounts of near-death experiences in India. Later research by Pasricha documented another 29 near-death experiences by people living in India.
A comparison of Hindu near-death experiences with western accounts reveals the following:
(1)  In 45 Hindu near-death accounts, Pasrich and Stevenson found no evidence of a tunnel experience which is frequently found in western accounts of the near-death experience. However, another near-death researcher, Susan Blackmore, has reported accounts of a tunnel experience in her research of 8 Hindu near-death experiencers.
(2) Only one account contained an out-of-body experience, which is another aspect that is frequently found in western accounts. Osis and Haraldsson did find several accounts of out-of-body experience in the Indian near-death experiences they researched.
(3) Consistent with western accounts, some Hindu near-death accounts included a life review. However, whereas in western accounts the life review often consist of seeing a panoramic view of a personís entire life, Hindu accounts consists of having someone read the record of the dying personís life (called the "akashic record"). In Christian circles, this is equivalent to reading from the "Book of Life" as known from Christian doctrine of the resurrection. In Hindu circles, it is a traditional belief that the reading of a personís akashic record occurs immediately after death and this concept is widely believed by Hindus all over India. However, the panoramic life review, which is commonly mentioned in western accounts, does not appear in accounts from India.
(4) As in western accounts, Hindu near-death accounts sometimes describe the meeting of religious deities and deceased loved ones.
Near-death researchers, Karlis Osis and Erlendur Haraldsson, documented the first major accounts of near-death experiences in India. In their interviews with 704 people living in India about their near-death experiences, 64 accounts of near-death experiences came to the surface. The remaining accounts had to do with death-bed visions.
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#3 flyingorb

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Posted 21 June 2003 - 03:25 AM

Thanks Moon, interesting.  This begs the question of WHY is there a difference in near death experiences tween differing cultures?


Villagers!  What do you think?
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#4 MoonChild

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Posted 21 June 2003 - 03:58 AM

that is a tough one Dennis. but one probability is that since we get this information from NDE from our consious mind, I believe that whatever happens on the OTHER side could be the same, but when they come back and narratte, mind might be taking their belief into account and linking it.

But a more palusible explanation {my own hypothesis} is that, since there are numerous other dimensions{planets perhaps}, and since we all follow different beliefs, maybe we ARE ACTUALLY going to diferent places. Well, this requires more detaild thought and analysis, but I guess it is fair to think this way.

Maybe Jesus Christ came from one dimension and Krishna came from some other dimension and likewise, all the prominent RELIGIOUS figures and Lords may have come from diffrerent planets{dimensions} altogether.

What say?
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#5 SpiritsOfMd

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Posted 21 June 2003 - 07:10 PM

Moon I have never thought of it that way!! Very Good One!!  I guess because I have only believed in one God all my life I was to narrowminded to think that maybe someone elses God was just as real to them as my God is to me...That might very well just be the case, There are other Gods and we go with "our" own.

Definitely something worth tossing around?
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#6 flyingorb

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Posted 22 June 2003 - 04:07 PM

Hi Moon,

Hmmm causes me great mental discomfort to think of more than one God.  Goes against everything I have thought for most of my life.   Still......... I have never tried to think along those lines.  Best I can muster for now is Perhaps. :-/
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#7 MoonChild

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Posted 22 June 2003 - 11:19 PM

Hi Friends,
I was not telling about having MULTIPLE GODS. See, Jesus is considered tthe Son Of God - not God himself. Likewise, we also consider all these Deities we worship as Incarnation of tthe Great One - not the Great One by ITSELF. What I tried to explain is that, Krishna or Rama or Jesus or any other "worshipped" Deity could be the MESSENGER of the GOD coming to us (all different of us) from different dimensions(planets, or other solar systems). So in essence GOD is one, WELL THERE IS NO other belief whatsoever, it is the representation that is NUMEROUS.

AS SpiritsOfMd mentioned here, most of us are "narrowminded". But probably this cannot be termed as narrowmindedness since WE NEED SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN so as to move forward! WE cannot forever go one "thinking" of alternatives, and if that is the case, we left stranded.

This is just a thought, but something I think is posible.
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#8 Bangin

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 05:42 AM

Good question.  Who knows if we'll ever have an answer before we die?  Personally, I do not believe in god.  I won't elaborate, but I haven't enough to place faith.  My belief is that our body acts as a shell.  This shell holds our energy while we are alive.  When death becomes our bodies, then I believe the shell is finally cracked and our energy is released.  Where does it go?  Good question.  Some of us have pictures of one possibility.  I don't believe that only a portion of people become "ghosts" due to an atrocious death or unsettled business.  I believe we all become this energy.  Whether we stay in this form or change/move into another is beyond me, as is the answer to flyingorbs question.  I'd like to add that I was in a near death experience and I didn't see any "light" or have any visions.

Jody Long, a near-death researcher with NDERF, has put it best. She said, "One of the near-death experience truths is that each person integrates their near-death experience into their own pre-existing belief system."


Very interesting and could very well be true.  Thanks!
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#9 flyingorb

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 02:45 PM

Hi Moon,

I understand what you are saying and of course, unless my dead collie comes back to whisper the secrets of the dead in my ear *LOL*, we'll never know until we take the trip.  

So many deaths with so little knowledge about where they go.  Perhaps a conspiracy of silence from those who have crossed over.  perhaps we could not bear the knowledge of what really happens when one crosses the dark veil.  You may indeed be right moon, we will all find out eventually.

Hi Bangin,

I do agree with you that death is a change, not an end.  when you look at the universe with the eye of science it becomes appearent that NOTHING is ever destroyed-just changed into something else.  Reason tells me that this rule should apply to us also.

You also reinforced another interesting question.  Why doesn't everybody have the same near death experience.  Not just a difference in interpretation, but a total lack of one also raises even more questions!  *LOL*
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#10 MoonChild

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 10:28 PM

but Dennis, it may not be the conspiracy of silence from the dead, it could well be veil of ignorance from the living. Pehaps just a step towards our eternal quest of WHAT IS BEYOND can solve hell a lot of problems, but how many os us are truly DOING to attin this knowhow!

And Banglin, yes, you may need to have a REASON for Faith in God. But personally what I see is, I don't need to HAVE MONEY to believe in MONEY. I know Money can bring me a Porche and Merc, and I believe in the TRUE power of wealth. So perhaps, the same way, I don't need to "see" or "feel" God to believe in this power. But you have put thigns STRAIGHT and TRUE when you mentioned about the energy and RIGHT perception of our body, yes it is only a shell and the "energy" inside gets released once it is no longer useful.

But to be frank, this thread have OPENED my thought process so much that , I guess I am LOST now. Will keep posting here as soon as I get a HOLD of my own THOUGHTS lmao!
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#11 flyingorb

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 12:41 AM

but Dennis, it may not be the conspiracy of silence from the dead, it could well be veil of ignorance from the living. Pehaps just a step towards our eternal quest of WHAT IS BEYOND can solve hell a lot of problems, but how many os us are truly DOING to attin this knowhow!


 That's one of the things that I appreciate about you Moon.  You frequently come at a question from a direction I would have never considered without your thoughts.  Of course you are right.  Most folks live out their lives with no concern of that uncomfortable topic- what happens when I die.  I suspect that the realization that death is near is the only way to shake some folks up to consider the possibilities.  Course by then it may already be too late. :(
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#12 rustypouch

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 03:20 PM

The answer is simple:  you are dead.

There is nothing after death, as the mind is a function of the brain, and after the brain ceases to function, the mind no longer exists.

#13 flyingorb

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 11:44 AM

Hi Rustypouch,

Of course I respect your opinion, but don't you think we are more than the tissues that compose us?  

Science cannot explain something as simple as why we think and while they can combine some amino acids in a controlled environment, they cannot create life either.  The unknowns are greater in number than the knowns when explaining life.  In the void created by the unknown, we must try to reason what is and what is not.  I believe that we are more than our component parts, that whether you call it mind, or soul, there is something extra that makes us what we are.  Rustypouch, eventually we both will find out for sure! *LOL* :o
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#14 reprise

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 12:29 PM

I believe that our bodies decay and our consciousness ceases to exist in any form.

#15 JimTheBrit

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 01:00 PM

flyingorb The unknowns are greater in number than the knowns when explaining life.

Aye, 'tis true for sure, and will be until we become as Gods!

In the void created by the unknown, we....

....must accept that what lies within, lies outside the bounds of our current knowledge. To base our beliefs on what we believe is possible rather than what we understand is actual, is a disservice to ourselves and to those we influence with those beliefs.

I believe that we are more than our component parts, that whether you call it mind, or soul, there is something extra that makes us what we are.

Agreed, and I think that anyone would believes humans are something other than mindless automatons would agree also. At 30 years young, my own mortality concerns me little, though this will change as I age. For now, I'll content myself with the fact that a little of me will live on in my children (*mental note: sometime in the future, have lots of kids*) and that my actions, I feel, are having a positive impact on humanity (however slight they may be in the 'bigger picture'). As for nothing ever being destroyed ...... well, that may be true of energy but it might not hold for the small speck of consciousness that currently manifests itself as JimTheBrit. We can only hope .... immortality is so tantalising ....... but let's not jump to conclusions  :)




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