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About Skeptics


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#16 Rockhauler2k1

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Posted 12 January 2003 - 07:12 AM

The truth depends greatly upon our point of view. Everything is simply a matter of perception. I do agree that being polite is critical in dealing with others but when anyone decides to open their work to scrutiny they also open themselves to skeptical points of view. The most important part of the whole thing is simply understanding where you stand while allowing others their opinion.

Ron
Many of the truths that we cling to depend greatly upon our point of view.Posted Image

#17 Darkomik

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Posted 22 January 2003 - 07:00 PM

::)Let's get one thing straight, I'm skeptical but open minded.  Used to be pretty closed minded years ago.  I will tell you this though, I have not seen ghosts in my life nor have I heard one spirit noise.  Now does that mean I'm belittling believers?  No.  What for?  You might as well try to belittle Muslims for their beliefs.  I guarentee ya it won't be very pleasant experience.  So, I'd rather respect other's beliefs even if I do not agree with them.  But just because there's a photo of a ghost, doesn't mean it's a ghost in the photograph.  It could be a white smudge.   I still maintain skepticism & challenge anybody to convince me that it's genuine.  I'm not saying I'm dead set against believing it, just give me a good, rational, & valid argument.  But if you start to bash me & yell & scream & pull your hair & try to flame me via email or posts like this, you're wasting my time.  ;)  Because my response will be: CLICK ignore. ;D  You guys copy?

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 05:46 AM

Flying Orb,

  I will no longer continue to discuss this topic with you. Even when I have stated that I am not fighting you on this issue... you have found a way (by coming into the About Skeptics Thread) to come in and continue your bashing.

 I have sent you a private email instead of rehashing everything here on the board. As I stated in that email, I would be interested in hearing your "Scientific Explanations" vs. what you have presented as "Belief structured fact."

Casey

#19 DEMON

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 11:53 AM

Rockhauler2k1,  Aurelia,  and Cygnusia I could not have said it better myself ;).  It is not my intention to bash any1 by this but,  I am going to say this anyway.  I had a couple of my friends,  who r hardcore Christians,  confront me and said that it was against their religion to believe n the "supernatural"  and that nothing could change their minds.  I took them to a spot which I investigate regularly and a couple of hours later...  they were stone-cold believers.  I am what Cygnusia describes as open minded but if I see somethin' that looks fake I will nail it to the wall 4 what it is.  My compliments 2 Cygnusia 4 the awesome and accurate description. ;D

#20 JimTheBrit

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Posted 12 June 2003 - 07:49 PM

Here’s my two cents. The term ‘skepticism’ is used in many ways. There’s the philosophical sense – those who relate to the philosophical school of Pyhrro and doubt the possibility of knowledge. There’s the meaning used frequently on television for someone who doubts (for whatever reason). Example: “President Bush’s reforms are predicted to cut taxes by 3%. Gerald Whitehead, CEO of Spud-U-Like, however, is skeptical”. You often hear the phrase “ I used to be skeptical until……”. Here, the term is used to mean simple disbelief. The person was of one opinion and now has switched to another. There’s the term found frequently throughout the paranormal community, that indicates a mind completely closed to the possibility that any paranormal phenomena are possible and seeks to protect this belief by being overly argumentative and rude. I call these pseudoskeptics. Finally,  there’s the definition preferred by both the majority of the ‘modern skeptic movement’ and myself  - one who has an attitude of doubting, who recognises the ways in which people can be fooled by both themselves and others, and who has learned the thought tools that can be used to evaluate beliefs and opinions that fall within the bounds of scientific testing. Note that, in this context, skepticism is more of an attitude -it's not a position.

#21 krcguns

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Posted 12 June 2003 - 07:59 PM

Hi Jim and welcome to GV! ;D

I agree with you that skepticism is an attitude.  I don't try and change anyone's mind here.  I just present the evidence that I have collected and let everyone form their own opinions.  I invite you to look around and see what you think.  

I can tell you for a fact that none of the evidence that I have presented on this or any other site is faked in any way.  That promise is for my stuff only as I can only vouch for myself in the end.  Take a look at my pics and see what you think.

I hope that you stick around and give some opinions on the evidence presented here.  It's always welcome to have a skeptics point of view on them. ;D
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#22 Camille

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Posted 12 June 2003 - 10:03 PM

<snip>You often hear the phrase “ I used to be skeptical until……”. Here, the term is used to mean simple disbelief. The person was of one opinion and now has switched to another. There’s the term found frequently throughout the paranormal community, that indicates a mind completely closed to the possibility that any paranormal phenomena are possible and seeks to protect this belief by being overly argumentative and rude. <snip>


Hi, Jim.  Thanks for so eloquently raising this important distinction.  Tossing my two pennies into the hat, I would add that that a "skeptic" is often misunderstood as a "cynic".   :;)    

Interestingly, the subheader for this topic includes the term "disbeliever."  

I had originally suggested to Flying Orb that he approach Randi's forum to invite additional opinions from the skeptic community.  

Welcome aboard.  Misery loves company   8)    
"What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite."Bertrand Russell"You're going to go to McDonald's... you'll order an Egg McMuffin and some coffee... WAIT! They're going to forget your extra salt! Remind them to give you salt, please!!"Ed Closser, Trivial Psychic

#23 flyingorb

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 03:43 PM

And a good suggestion it was Camille!   ;D
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#24 maharet

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 08:50 PM

Skeptical but open-minded seems to be the best way to go in my humble opinion as well.

There are a lot of things out there are that cannot be explained because we don't understand them. Sometimes they're called supernatural. Break that down for a second, that means "extremely natural." There are many things in the universe we don't understand, yet, but we're working towards understanding them as a species (I think, sometimes I dunno).

So I understand that the blind believers feel attacked because skeptics ask questions. I believe they exist, I want to know why but that's often misconstrued as "destroying" because I don't want to say "it's magical." I guess maybe it takes more courage for us skeptics to be open-minded and ask why than being a believer who simply believes in everything that someone says.

Or, maybe I just need to phrase my posts so I don't appear so confrontational....

#25 flyingorb

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 03:25 AM

Hi Maharet,

I've read a number of your posts and don't think you are trying to be unduly "confrontational".  If you state an opinion that disagrees with someone-thats expected, especially in this board *LOL*.  In fact I look foward to reading your posts Maharet.

2 sides of the same coin:

A skeptic gets upset and calls a believer "closed minded" because the believer won't accept any half-baked mundane cause to explain what a believer feels is a paranormal experience.

A believer gets upset because a skeptic asks for relevant details that may explain the paranormal experience as mundane causal.  The believer calls the sceptic "closed minded".

As you can see, the sword cuts both ways.  We are all here to think about and learn of other points of view.  Don't be shy about freely posting your particular point of view.  Don't feel shy about disagreeing and posting your opinion.  As long as a basic respect for the others point of view is maintained- it's all good. ;)
CRY HAVOK! Let Slip The Chihuahuas Of War.....When an ORB dies.......a Chihuahua is born!

#26 Rockhauler2k1

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 06:03 AM

Flying & maharet ,

I couldnt agree more.  Stating our opinion allows us to test the waters. If we didnt question our results we would be as bad as the cynic who accepts nothing as truth and simply argues for the sake of the argument.

Rockhauler2k1
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#27 maharet

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 08:35 AM

Let me give you an example of what happens when you don't ask questions about paranormal experiences.

Some people, myself included, are very sensitive to the frequencies emitted from televisions. There are, in fact, many people who are sensitive to the frrequency. Some people perceive it as a very dull ringing and others like a pressure.

A local lady, sensitive to these frequencies, swore up and down she was being haunted by the ghost of her son who died a few months ago. She described the sound perceived from televisions and I was asked to investigate her claim.

So I asked her appropriate questions like when did her son die, where did he sleep, has she seen any apparitions in the house or the property, has she heard anything unusual. That's when she told me about the "noise." It was described as the noise emitted from televisions.

After further questioning, she heaard the noise most loudly when someone had a television on in her house or prime time vieiwing hours when her neighbors were home (they live in very close proximity to her house).

I explained I, too, heard the noise but not to worry because it simply means she's very sensitive to television sets. I explained replacing her TV with a more modern set would cut down on the noise.  I also advised her to seek out one of our local, credible, legitimate psychics to speak with her son.

She was angry at first until I explained that a psychic could give her a much better picture of what happened to her son. She called me later and thanked me for my advice, saying I had been right about the TV but did'nt tell me if what the psychic had told her. I figured it was private so I didn't pry.

Otherwise, that lady would still be thinking her son was haunting her home.

#28

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 12:35 PM

hi maharet,

curious, are you referring to an audible sound coming from the TV, or electronic "noise" leaking from the circuitry?

flyingorb

#29 maharet

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 05:04 PM

It's not an audible noise, as in something you can hear with the ear, but it's sort of like hearing it only in your head. There are people sensitive to it, some much more so than others.

You can tell if you're sensitive if a television is muted but you can still "sense" that it's on from many feet away. You can also sense computer monitors being on without seeing the screen. It could be leakage, I don't know, I'm guessing it is. I know complaints have been up about it since digital cable has started becoming more standard. Digital cable is "louder."

I've been able to sense it since I was a kid but you just go about your business and eventually you stop paying attention to it. Unless there are too many TVs on in a place. Sounds pretty schizophrenic but it's nothing close to hearing "voices."

#30 flyingorb

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Posted 29 June 2003 - 07:22 PM

No not schizophrenic at all.  Most modern electronics leak em when in operation.  That is why the FCC regulates them.  Thats why the police can detect if you have a "speed trap" detector in your car.

I am curious.  Do cell phones, radios, microwave towers cause a reaction that you can feel?  Have you ever had your friends set up an experiment to test what you feel/hear?

I have heard a spirit in my basement give an audible "NO" to me, so on the schizophrenic scale I guess you are far better off than me!  *snicker* ;D
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