31 replies to this topic

[reprise]

Quote

Thanx 4 the link Reprise I'm gonna check it out now! And Prophesy? Sounds familiar, can you give me a little info (plot) :-/

Prophecy (1979)

[flyingorb]

reprise- flyingorb, there's considerable concern about the effect that the US Navy's Low Frequency Active sonar system has on whales - so it isn't just what we physically dump into the habitat of other animals we have to worry about, it's everything we do which affects their habitat.  Does anyone remember the movie Prophecy - it scared the crap out of me the first time I saw it.


I have heard that, but know almost nothing about the effects of "ELF" waves.  It is certainly a possibility though.

I also wonder about the long term effects of ac "house" current and their accompanying magnetic fields.  If you hook yourself up to an oscilloscope you can see that you are "vibrating" at a frequency of 60 cycles.  This is because "house" current is also 60 cycles.  What may the long term genetic effects be from this?  Who knows?  Could a general upswing in the incidence of cancer be related?  No answers here only speculation.

[Angel]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/674647.asp  
This is the address of an update of the story that caused me to start this topic, if you haven't seen it yet, check it out!

[maharet]

They're only monsters because of their size. At the bottom of the ocean, marine life has developed the ability to create its own phosphorescent glow. Fewer predators I guess.

The giant squid probably comes from an area where there are fewer predators so they can grow big or maybe it is from all the crap that has been dumped, leaked or spilled into the ocean over the last few centuries.

[Cheshire]

I understand the concern for waste being dumped, but what kind of serious, wide-spread effects does it really have? I don't know much about it, but I doubt that it could change an entire species, or produce a new one. To produce a new species the "flawed" young would clearly have to mate. The same deffects wouldn't pass on though, new ones would form. I understand that the toxic material would deform the offspring of animals exposed to it, but these deformed off spring would die because of the most basic law of nature: "Survival of the fittest". I don't know if it's possible or not, but I highly doubt that toxic waste or radiation and all that other fun stuff governments throw into the waves could cause an animal to suddenly turn viscous, or grow to enormous sizes. Yes, it can deform them....then if the mutated offspring survive predation and thier deformity doesn't hinder thier own ability to gather food they may survive to adult hood. If I am wrong.....then somebody please shoot what I've said out of the sky because I happen to keep alot of parachutes.

As for all this talk of unkown animals...I've been interested in this sort of thing for awhile and it is called "cryptozoology"-the study of the lore concerning legendary animals (as Sasquatch) especially in order to evaluate the possibility of their existence. Definition courtesy of the Merriam-Webster Online dictionary.

[Gregory]

Cheshire: I don't know much about it either, so this is largely speculation on my part, but...

I don't think people are worried that nuclear waste will cause a species to mutate.  As you point out, natural selection will keep that from happening unless the mutation is beneficial.  The problem is that if large segments of a population are contaminated--and therefore unable to reproduce--it could drive that species to extinction.

A really grim example would be if nuclear waste leaked into a lake or other watering hole.  It would probably kill off the animals living in the lake--even non-nuclear polution can do that--and it could also wipe out (or at least seriously mess up) every animal populatation that relied on the lake for drinking water.

That's how I see it, anyway.  Unless someone who knows more about the subject matter would like to jump in and correct me...?

[Cheshire]

That's an exellent point, Gregory. I wasn't really thinking of extinction at the time. But I agree with you, completely. When you sit down and really take the time to think about things like the Giant Squid, Big Foot, wether or not the Thylacine is really extinct, the Beast of Gevaudan, even things that seem more far fetched like the Chupacabra, and the Maryland Goatman....it's all kind of interesting.

[Gabrial]

One other thing to think about, is the fact that "human-kind" seems to acept as a fact that "Real" inteligence is only a human trait.  If you were to think about the big picture of life on this planet and do the math, that probability is very low.  The point... it's posable that there are monsters/creatures that posess enough inteligence to know to stay the hell away from us, as they see how mankind in genral treats their own speicies and the world around them.  So they may have made a forced decision to live in secritive ways to protect their own existance, and not be put in a modern day travleing freak show loseing their freedom.  
                           Just a thought.........  

[Cheshire]

All animals learn to avoid that which hurts them through experience and communication. Aside from bugs and thier need to "fly towards the light" then -ZAP-, but maybe that's just because they don't live to tell the tale? lol Anywho I see your point Gabrial, but most all animals do learn to avoid things which bring harm to them. Most animals do fear the human race, others are curious (foxes, Raccoons). Pretty much all animas will attack to defend thier young or when cornered. That's just survival instinct and learned habits.

[Gregory]

Gabrial: what formula did you use to determain that the probability of only one intelligent species evolving is very low?  I've never heard of such a thing, and I have trouble believing that evolution can be predicted by mathematics.

[Gabrial]

Gregory, LOL didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.  All I was saying was that to think that we as humans are the only spices who evolved to a stated of higher reasoning/intelligence seems very improbable considering there are rainforest's modern man has never explored, ocean depths that we can't dive to, to explore. Yet we know there are creatures that live at thought depths.  Even in Rock Hills SD USA there are Miles of unexplored caves.  As I ended my last post,
           It's just a thought.   If there were proof either way we would never need to have this discussion.  Again not trying to step on you Internet toes.

[Gregory]

It would take a lot more than your post to ruffle my feathers.  Sorry if I gave that impression.

[Cheshire]

Evolution by definition is:"1) : a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state  4 b : a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations"(thanks be to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary)
Our intelligence was gained through our evolution. The earliest predecessors of man kind were simply the quickest to adapt and overcome, as well as the larger brain cpacity we have over other animals. If it wasn't for that meteor(or wide spread disease, or over population....or over predation......)that killed off the Dinosuars it's very well possible that they could have evolved into quicker thinking, more tactically thinking beings. Since life began on earth it has had a dominant species. Evolution caused the dinosaurs to evolve into massive beasts, allowed to do so because of the current habitat (endless, lush forests....generally warm climate throughout the majority of the world..plenty of food for everything, vast fields, immense oceans and lakes and swamps teaming with all sorts of life). The dinosaurs stayed on top by staying on the top of the food chain, with help due to thier generally massive size. Yes, there were tiny ones but they were more like scavangers and are believed to have traveled in large packs. The mid-sized hunters are said to have hunted in packs. After the dinosaurs were wiped out mammals started doing thier thing and it was intelligence, not size or speed or strength that led to the evolution of a new dominant species...Man. We have pretty much taken over the entire world, yes there are remote areas but most have been touched/tainted by humanity. We're really preventing other species from evolving because we're taking thier resources to use as our own and changing thier habitat to benefit ourselves. Therefore the possability that another species or race has evolved to a state of intelligence like our own is highly unlikely. BUT that doesn't mean it couldn't have happened.

"The most elusive creature known to man kind is the one not yet discovered"-Forgot who said it.

By the way, I hope that didn't make me sound like some kind of animal rights tree hugger nut. Because I'm not.


The authority on typing more than required,

           -Cheshire-

[Maurice]

What a great discussion line.  Just to bring the subject a bit closer to home for everyone, it wasn't until the 1950's if memory serves, that something we all take as common place was discovered, but previously believed to be pure myth.  That was the Giant Panda of China.  If that was discovered on land, the mind can only wonder at the fantastic things waiting to be found in the depths of the sea.

[flyingorb]

Welcome to Skeptics Maurice!

Just to add to the general angst of those interested in the oceans.  I saw a special on TV where scientists went into the Marianas Trench (deepest part of the ocean) and one of the strange creatures discovered was a beer can laying on the bottom.

Who can even guess at the number of undiscovered species that may have already been destroyed by mankind using the oceans as a garbage dump!