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9/11


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#1 carlotta

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 08:08 AM

Hi Y'all,

In a discussion in a different place on this forum it was mentioned that the complete implosion of the twin towers could not have been caused by just the airplanes. Could there have been explosives planted in the buildings too?

Did the airplane that crashed in Pennsylvania crash because the terrorists and heroes fought it out, or was it shot down in the interest of national security (in case it tried to hit the White House)?

Carlotta
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#2 Kristy

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 06:33 PM

Hi Y'all,

In a discussion in a different place on this forum it was mentioned that the complete implosion of the twin towers could not have been caused by just the airplanes. Could there have been explosives planted in the buildings too?

Did the airplane that crashed in Pennsylvania crash because the terrorists and heroes fought it out, or was it shot down in the interest of national security (in case it tried to hit the White House)?

Carlotta


Carlotta-

Funny both of thoese questions-exact two questions roll around in my head and will not leave me alone (and alot of others ). There are so so many conspiracy theories, I hope Mark London catches this post of yours......it has been said that the fire from the fuel could not have been hot enough (or the reason) to cause the implosion of the Twin Tower buildings-AND Tower 7 imploded on itself for some unknown reason didn't it?
Kristy

#3 StillWondering

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 08:12 PM

yeah, i wonder that too. i was just talking about it today lol
haha. (it's not really funny but he's hot)

#4 ryan005

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 06:24 AM

I don't think there were any explosives planted in the building. When the planes crashed, the jet fuel heated up the metal supports inside the building's infrastructure that the metal buckled, causing the towers to collapse. As for the one that crashed in Pennsylvania, the passengers supposedly fought the terrorists, but the plane was being followed by a couple of Air Force jets in case it got too close to Washington D.C. and they needed to shoot it down. That plane's target was the Capital Building. You're right there are lots of conspiracies concerning 9/11.

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#5 Seeker

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 09:07 AM

Take any story, bend it, leave out important information, add conjecture and assumption and you wind up with something very convincing until all facts are presented. Then it looks outright foolish. This is hardly the first or last time. Conspiracy theories abound in criminal investigations. Anything to do with the government will bring the them out of the woodwork like ants (past history may have earned them that) All in all, I like to think I cant be led that easily.

Edited by Seeker, 17 May 2008 - 09:08 AM.

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#6 CaveRat2

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:24 AM

I have read reports regarding the expansion of the steel supports in relation to the concrete in the towers. It all comes together that the fuel burning caused the expansion of steel and eventual collapse of unsupported (due to this expansion) concrete floors. this caused the eventual collapse of the above undamaged floors which far exceeded the capacity of the amaged floors leading to the pancake collapse of lower floors. The design of the building was such that interior supports gave way first keeping the collapse contained within. Had the outer walls gave way first it would have fell rather than collapsed. This is why many people think coverup, they expected it to fall rather than pancake in on itself, however the exterior supports were more substantial preventing this.

Tower 7 eventually fell in the same manner but one has to consider this happened after over 7 hours of uncontrolled burning had been taking place within it. No effort was made to extinguish the fire due to the danger to personell from the other two buildings which had recently fallen.

#7 Mark London

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 02:04 PM

Im glad this has been brought up, as I was keen to leave it out of my posting regarding the events of 9/11.

I have been told from a "special friend" that hydrocarbon fuel fires do not reach the maximum temperature to enable steel to melt.

No building in history has ever collapsed due to steel melting.

The melting point of steel is 2,795 degrees, hydrocarbon fires (jet fuel) avergae just 1517 degrees. Most of the jet fuel that entered the building were burnt off within 3 minutes, due to suffocation. and as we saw in the south tower most of the jet fuel exploded outside of the tower, and again burnt off in seconds.

Oxygen-starved flames burn out quickly and are much cooler, hence the black smoke we saw pouring from the towers.

The way the two towers fell was not disimilar to a demolition. And there were many reports of explosions coming from underneath the towers

:P

#8 GiaCat21

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 10:20 PM

Has anyone read the book 102 Minutes? It's mostly about what's going on inside the towers between the time the first plane hit and the second tower collapsed... Anyways they go into some detail about how the buildings were not entirely up to code (I think that's how it goes..).... Like the stair case was in the middle of the building and it allowed the highjacker to cut off access to the lower floors for the people above the level of impact. I can't remember exactly. I'll do some research. It's been a couple of years since I read it and I'm pretty foggy right now (it's 9:20 here)... But I'll post what I find (and remember).
Love life.

#9 Mark London

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 05:21 AM

HI Stella

Yes I read that book, i think it I read it twice lol Its an excellent read !

Those of you that havent read it, it is about eyewitness accounts of ordinary civilians that where in the towers that morning. It is very compelling and quite shocking. '102' mintues being the time it took for the first plane to hit the north tower and its final collapse.

Mark :)

#10 Shawn333

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 01:37 PM

An article from Popular Mechanics about melting steel:
Full article here.

"Melted" Steel
Claim: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800 to 1500F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800 it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

#11 Whitebuffalo

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 02:51 PM

You know, thoeries abound about what happened that fateful day in New York. Unfortunately, unless you have an insiders view, it would be virtually impossible to know what truly happened.
I feel, in my heart, that this could not really have occurred as drastically as it had, if it were only the two planes involved. Trajically, so many innocent lives were lost and affected due to the well thought out plans of an evil master mind.
I, for one, can not keep the vision of those few minutes, that changed all of history, out of my mind every time September 11 comes around. I still look for the towers in photos, and still feel the pain of that day.
What needs to happen now is that we all need to hang onto our loved ones in the same way that we did that day when we first heard the news. We need to live as if this moment, right now, were to be our last. We need not skip ONE SINGLE opportunity to let those dear to us know how very much we care. And hold all that we love close to our hearts, even if they are many miles away.

#12 AngelRose

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 06:26 PM

I have a question. If they put explosives inside the twin towers, why would they need to fly the planes into them. They could have just clicked a button to blow them up. Right?

As far as the one in Pennsylvania, I don't know if they knew about it then to shoot it down. But if they were going to shoot it down, afraid it would go toward the WhiteHouse, I think they would have waited for it to get a little closer there.

I say let those who were brave enough to try to take over the plane stay a hero. True or not, I feel what we have been told about that plane is entirely true. I feel the American's aboard that plane did try to take it over. I say THEY ARE THE HERO'S.

We all have 1,000 things we think we know about that day. When infact we only have our own opinion. I like hearing other's opinions, and I like to express mine. But I don't know if we really do know what happened. Or if we ever will.

Blessings,
Angie
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#13 Mark London

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 05:48 AM

AngelRose,

I think the reason why they just didnt blow the towers was that they needed to show the world that this was a terrorist attack, and by simply just blowing the towers up wouldn't be so credible, what with security etc.

Where was Norad, thats what I want to know ?

#14 erna_butter

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 06:20 AM

Norad and 9/11


link above is just a Weird thing of information on the going ons from norads point of View on 9/11.



not a great one if you ask me .
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#15 ~*Jazzy*~

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 06:30 PM

Just curious.....

IF there were in fact explosives in the towers...what makes you think they were planted there by the terrorists? Is it possible that before the planes crashed into the buildings...perhaps several days or weeks beforehand, that someone had knowledge of it and decided to plant the explosives?

There are so many ways to think about this and it's something that no one will ever have true answers to. It's unfortunate that so many lives were lost and even more unfortunate that it probably could have been prevented had people in the right places just listened. Sad as it is, there is nothing that can be done to reverse the events...the only way to look now is forward.
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