15 replies to this topic

[reprise]

Any opinions on whether this article by George Anderson is an example of professional jealousy or confirmation that television mediums deceive their audiences in a manner which skeptics have claimed in the past?

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I am too old now to remain polite about the disgraceful behavior and shabby morals of many who claim mediumship, and then tramp into your living room via television only to dismantle everything your hope has taught you, by getting caught cheating, or being fed information and pretending to hear it from "the other side," or to hire an assistant to stand on line next to you at the studio to gather information about your loved one only to parrot it back to you on camera.  No more. If the "mediums" are guilty, then the producers of these fiascos should hang, because they know they are perpetrating a fraud against everyone who hopes it may be possible to hear from a loved one passed on.

[Freda]

It is an attempt to clarify all television mediums as deceiving audiences irrespective of any truth in the matter .... and is a clear cut case of sour grapes... professional jealousy.....

I notice that he charges exorbitant fees for the work he does, and if he is supposed to be disappearing from the media, then why advertise on his site, that groups and sessions in a few weeks will cost anything up to $2000 ?

The man also clearly has a big ego if he feels that he is the only person with the ability to pass on  'souls' messages to their loved ones here.  It is a bit like every religion on this earth thinking they have the monopoly on God ... when in fact they are all apart of the Divine and all with an element of truth in them.

It matters not WHERE the messages are passed on - be it television,  other venue, or even privately at home,  the message is for the recipient and meant to give comfort in time of need; or just to prove that there is something beyond this life.

Edited to agree that the shows presenters should be accountable for cutting parts of a programme that, shows irrefutable proof of survival just to boost figures and profits.  Many of these events have the best parts cut out, and tend to show mediumship in a poor light ...

[Gregory]

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Edited to agree that the shows presenters should be accountable for cutting parts of a programme that, shows irrefutable proof of survival just to boost figures and profits.  Many of these events have the best parts cut out, and tend to show mediumship in a poor light ...

Can you provide evidence that this happens?  I've never heard of it before, and it doesn't really mesh with what little I know of television mediums.

And out of interest, which television mediums do you consider to be genuine?

[JimTheBrit]

And also out of interest, how can you tell if a professed psychic is fraudulent?

[maharet]

Testing a psychic means conducting a science experiment.

He or she must be in a controlled environment, a very controlled environment, free of any equipment on themselves or in the room. The person testing the psychic must remain in control of the situation and the psychic must have no way to obtain knowledge about the person he or she is supposed to read.

A TV psychic can get a lot of information about a person starting with the credit card number they used to buy tickets to see the show.

[Freda]

..... and if they haven't paid by credit card ?????

It really is laughable the numerous excuses/reasons that issue forth when mediums are being discussed. ;D

[Gregory]

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..... and if they haven't paid by credit card ?????

I should not have trivialized my question by calling it a matter of interest; if you want to discuss how mediums get the results they do, knowing which mediums you're referring to is absolutely essential.

[maharet]

I refer to ANY psychic who charges admission and performs before a large audience. John Edward for example. He's very vague when he hasn't been able to collect enough information on his victims.

[flyingorb]

I tend to dismiss all who make money from those they claim to help.  Money causes an inescapable need to "perform" and perform they do, even if it is all a sham.  In my opinion, Edwards is sometimes vague bec ause he is a fake!  He has just brushed off an old carney sideshow act and put it on tv.  People invariably remember Edwards "hits" more than they do his failures.  I have seen him get arguementative with his victims when the don't know anyone whose name starts with a random letter, maybe should be "F", for fraud. ;D

[Gregory]

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I tend to dismiss all who make money from those they claim to help.

I hate to have to defend mediums, but I don't think this is really fair.  Psychologists and doctors, for example, both take money from the people they try to help, and it doesn't cause anyone to question their validity.  Why should mediums be any different?

[chesta]

I wouldn't judge results based on TV mediums because it would need to be tested under controlled conditions more.  About John Edwards I question his motives with all the money he is probably making off of this and after watching his show for a while he seems too accurate for cold reading so if he was a fraud hot reading would probably be involved.  Him and some other mediums were also tested by Gary Shwartz: http://www.openmindsciences.com/

Also if skeptics claim cold reading then the burden of proof is on them to be able to turn up the same results that any mediums get with cold reading under the same conditions.  

[Gregory]

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About John Edwards I question his motives with all the money he is probably making off of this and after watching his show for a while he seems too accurate for cold reading so if he was a fraud hot reading would probably be involved.  Him and some other mediums were also tested by Gary Shwartz:http://www.openmindsciences.com/

You mean this experiment?

http://www.csicop.or...-01/medium.html

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Also if skeptics claim cold reading then the burden of proof is on them to be able to turn up the same results that any mediums get with cold reading under the same conditions.  

This has been done many times to my personal satisfaction.  For example:

"For the BBC's 'Heart of the Matter' series, Ian [Rowland] was challenged to demonstrate 'cold reading' under test conditions. His entirely faked reading was judged to be "99.9%" accurate - the first ever demonstration of its kind."

[http://www.magicweek...an_rowland.htm]

He was so convincing that even after he admitted that he was a cold reader, some of his subjects refused to believe it!

[chesta]

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You mean this experiment?
http://www.csicop.or...-01/medium.html

Yes, Hyman's critique was thouroughly responed to here which is called How Not To Review Mediumship Research:

http://www.enformy.c...HymanReview.htm

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This has been done many times to my personal satisfaction.  For example:

"For the BBC's 'Heart of the Matter' series, Ian [Rowland] was challenged to demonstrate 'cold reading' under test conditions. His entirely faked reading was judged to be "99.9%" accurate - the first ever demonstration of its kind."

[http://www.magicweek...an_rowland.htm]

He was so convincing that even after he admitted that he was a cold reader, some of his subjects refused to believe it!

That looks interesting I would like to see if there is more and I question if they really had proper controls to test him and I wonder how well skeptics may have demonstarted this but I have yet to see anything convincing.  From the sound of it from what I heard Randi made a fool of himself trying cold reading on that psychic challenge show.  I believe Schwartz also offered to let Randi try cold reading with the same experiment that JE was tested with but he declined.      

[Gregory]

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Yes, Hyman's critique was thouroughly responed to here which is called How Not To Review Mediumship Research:
http://www.enformy.c...HymanReview.htm

And Hyman's reply:

http://www.csicop.or...w-up-hyman.html


Randi might have made a fool of himself, but that doesn't prove anything, except that Randi isn't a very good cold reader.

[chesta]

I don't know if Shwartz responded to that but for more on Hyman:

http://www.trickster...HymanReview.htm

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Randi might have made a fool of himself, but that doesn't prove anything, except that Randi isn't a very good cold reader.

True, but I wonder why he even attempted it if he can't cold read rather then having someone else try it.