10 replies to this topic

[Gilligan]

They only meause surface temperatures and not air temperature? How can cold spots be measured with these?

[CaveRat2]

Unless the cold or hot spot comes in contact with the surface, they can't .

However they still may serve a useful purpose. Suppose for example a wall is abnormally hot or cold due to external conditions. (sunlight hitting the outside, maybe a below grade wall, etc.) These conditions can cause air to be heated or cooled that comes in contact with the wall. (Or whatever the surface). Thus a rational non-paranormal explanation for a hot spot or cold spot. Like most equipment, they can serve to debunk false indications of paranormal activity.

[GPPI_JMe]

This is true.

Something else I've kept my old one around for is to check surface temperature readings on items that are set up for manipulation purposes. Say there are reports of a ball being "played with" in a certain room. Set the ball up in a controlled location in the room, take a surface temperature reading, and then hold out to see if the ball is manipulated during an EVP session, etc. If it is, check the temperature of the ball again, and see if perhaps it has changed.

No.. It's not definitive, but it's another way to make use of something that no longer suits your needs.

[sdGH_Tech]

Good question.

As mentioned in this thread, non-contact IR thermometers can be useful to measure the temperature of trigger objects as the previously mentioned ball.

But, most investigators like to measure surrounding air temps for anomalous changes. For this, one needs an ambient air thermometer. It come in the form of a stand alone until or as an add-on probe to an existing IR Thermometer model that is built to accept one. They can be had for between $50.00 and $170.00.

I use a Mannix IRT408K and couldn't be happier. A bonus: it has a backlit LCD display for working in the dark.

Gilligan, on Aug 14 2008, 01:28 PM, said:

They only meause surface temperatures and not air temperature? How can cold spots be measured with these?

Edited by sdGH_Tech, 18 August 2008 - 03:21 PM.

[LoneArcher]

sdGH_Tech, on Aug 18 2008, 03:18 PM, said:

Good question.

As mentioned in this thread, non-contact IR thermometers can be useful to measure the temperature of trigger objects as the previously mentioned ball.

But, most investigators like to measure surrounding air temps for anomalous changes. For this, one needs an ambient air thermometer. It come in the form of a stand alone until or as an add-on probe to an existing IR Thermometer model that is built to accept one. They can be had for between $50.00 and $170.00.

I use a Mannix IRT408K and couldn't be happier. A bonus: it has a backlit LCD display for working in the dark.

Gilligan, on Aug 14 2008, 01:28 PM, said:

They only meause surface temperatures and not air temperature? How can cold spots be measured with these?

Another option is to get a dual range thermometer, one that has both an IR function and a built in probe for measuring air temp. Use the IR function to check the temp of walls, ceiling, floor, etc. and then use the probe to measure the temp of a cold spot. What's more, it can display both temps at the same time.

Ghost has one for about $70: http://ghostvillage....roduct/ir2.html

[nnyprs]

Another school of thought is that the "spirit" would become the surface the Digital Therm. is measuring. There is still wide discussion and opposition to this. In my opinion, this is tue. During many investigations, upon finding a spot that differed from the rest of the room, I would walk forward "through" the cold spot. More often than not, once the therm. is through it, the temp. goes up. This is done using a fixed spot, keeping the therm directed at the same spot through out this measurement process. However, you do need to be careful that you are not outside of the range. i.e to far away from the wall. The size of the spot where the temp is taken is much larger further out from the tip.

[CaveRat2]

nnyprs, on Sep 22 2008, 12:53 PM, said:

Another school of thought is that the "spirit" would become the surface the Digital Therm. is measuring. There is still wide discussion and opposition to this. In my opinion, this is tue. During many investigations, upon finding a spot that differed from the rest of the room, I would walk forward "through" the cold spot. More often than not, once the therm. is through it, the temp. goes up. This is done using a fixed spot, keeping the therm directed at the same spot through out this measurement process. However, you do need to be careful that you are not outside of the range. i.e to far away from the wall. The size of the spot where the temp is taken is much larger further out from the tip.

The problem with this theory is that the surface would have to be a solid object capable of radiating energy as that is how the IR thermometers operate. Yet a spirit is assumed to be able to pass through objects, something a solid object could not do. Simply having a thermal boundryt is not enough, you can ue an IR thermometer to measure the temperature of a wall behind a boiling pot of water on a stove (try it!) Just shoot the beam through the steam, you'll measure the wall, not the steam.

[nnyprs]

Believe it or not, you are actually helping my arguement. The theory is that if a spirit has enough energy to manifest itself in some way, that to IR, it would appear as a solid surface.

What a lot of people don't understand is, that the majority of the time, where you find a cold spot does NOT mean that a ghost is standing right there. In order for spirit to manifest themsleves in some way in the world, they need to gather energy...energy that you and I have, that a tree has, that a chair has, to make it solid. Many believe that, for the most part, when you encounter a cold spot, that energy from the heat in the air has been taken for use by a ghost to manifest. WHen a ghost has this energy, ot could appear solid to IR

Please always remember, what we do as paranormal researchers is not a completely tested science. It's called trial and error. What one team does, another team may think the "physics" or "logic" make no sense. But if these groups never got around to trying these theories out, how are we to advance this science? So just because you don't believe it works, doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. If we all approached research like that, we would still be at the same place as some of the earliest paranormal researchers.

And as always, please understand that this is all only my humble opinion, which we are all entitled to. I know we won't agree, and that is ok with me.

[OMPRDave]

Yes but this is a proven technology. It would make more sense to use an ambient thermometer than an IR surface reading thermometer for the fact taht you are getting a reading at the source. Selling non-contact thermometers was just another way to get more items into ghost hunter's equipment bag and more money into those who sell these items without any knowledge about what they are selling.

[nnyprs]

I was going to argue that the ambient therm. would just take the temp. of the room, not a cold spot, but then I remembered that, especially if you use a probe, you can place the probe in the cold spot.
My arguements here were not against using ambient, and I also believe it is better, however, I did want to defend my pint of view in regards to why we still use the non-contact IR Digital therms.

[CaveRat2]

Your theory could be tested in a non paranormal manner. If I follow your hypothesis, it is that a temperature change will create some type of "wall" which will cause the border to act as as solid object.

If so then rather than trying to get a paranormal explanation the first step might be to attempt, in some manner, a method of creating naturally a thermal barrier which will cause refraction of an IR beam. You might consider working with the change in air density which does in fact occur with changes in temperature.

I am not trying to discount the theory. Rather we know that IR thermometers work within certain known limitations. They measure surface temperatures. If such a surface can be created in air then an IR thermometer might measure its temperature. It would seem the first step would be to create such a barrier and confirm this portion of the hypothesis. If that is done, the next step would indeed be to see if the paranormal part of the theory also holds true. If the experiment were divided into two stages some of the ambiguity might be ruled out.