Free Skins
© Fisana

Jump to content


Photo

My first post. Just thinking out loud mostly...


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 MellowCat

MellowCat

    Member

  • New Member
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 27 September 2008 - 10:59 PM

I'm glad to have stumbled upon this site. More encouraging is that there is a "Skeptic" section. I like skeptics. But I've got my own ideas about ghosts that meet somewhere in the middle.

I never believed in "ghosts" until I had several personal experiences with them. I'll save those stories for the "haunted stories" board. My big problem with non-skeptics is primarily the following:

1) People believe EVERYTHING is a ghost.
2) Somehow they manage to manufacture actual messages from every unintelligible EVP out there. Vague voice patterns that The Bionic Man couldn't discern become "I AM SATAN AND GET OUT" or whatever they can come up with. Once a phrase is proclaimed by some "expert," the power of suggestion takes over.
3) Orbs. Every orb is surely a ghost to these people. Orbs are all over the family photos from my childhood through adulthood. I'm not buying those run-of-the-mill reflections as being ghosts. The ones that dart about on video is another thing entirely. But I'm not 100% sure of those, either.
4) The biggest peave is that they claim to know the ghosts intentions and what to do to "get rid of them" or "send them into the light." Who are these people determine that "the ghost is unhappy and needs to "cross over" or "they're looking for their lost love." How in the hell do they know?
5) There must be some tragic death associated with a haunting. I can vouch that no death has to take place in the house for a haunting to occur there.

We *need* skeptics in the study of the paranormal because some of us believers are made to look like whack jobs by other fellow believers. It's hard to reconcile with that. I would love for scientific proof to come forth, but I personally don't need it to affirm what I've experienced personally.

#2 Señor Hugo

Señor Hugo

    Villager

  • New Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Wayne, Indiana

Posted 28 September 2008 - 12:44 AM

#4 is the only one that I really need to respond to, since the rest we pretty much all agree on.

4) The biggest peave is that they claim to know the ghosts intentions and what to do to "get rid of them" or "send them into the light." Who are these people determine that "the ghost is unhappy and needs to "cross over" or "they're looking for their lost love." How in the hell do they know?


When there is a negative entity, those of us who are the least bit sensitive can kind of tell. When you go into a home where people have been arguing constantly, the air in the house feels very angry, the environment feels very uneasy.

These are just a couple of ways sensitives can tell what the intentions are. We can't tell if a spirit is BAD_WORD at a specific person because that person was wearing a Yankees hat when their favorite team is the White Soxs.

However we can tell when a spirit is angry at someone and really doesn't like that person around. Usually with a combination of activity centering around that person, and the "air" feeling very angry.

As for getting rid of ghosts, we look at history, throughout the centuries there have been many accounts of people getting rid of spirits. Blessing and burying things in the corner of the property and saying prayers. Going through the house with a white candle and saying prayers, doing a banishing ritual using a set of spells. Using a combination of bells, spells, incense to remove a spirit.

It all works, it does a half-assed job on it's own when ridding spirits, however combined with spells and the willpower of the person performing the cleansing, it seems to work well.
"I am the bridge between worlds. I have experienced life, I have experienced death, others and my own. I am a shaman."

#3 wuwei

wuwei

    Junior Villager

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts

Posted 28 September 2008 - 07:10 AM

Hi Mellowcat.

I agree with your post. There seem to be two camps (as there are in many things in life - democrats and republicans, creationists and evolutionists etc) when it comes to acceptance of evidence. Or more correctly the standard of evidence shifts between people.

There are skeptics that will never believe, no matter what. There are believers that will always believe, no matter what. The problem is that when drawn into a debate more moderate skeptics and believers tend to brand the other side as being extreme: "they must be extreme because they can't accept my point of view even though it is obviously the right one!". I think that most people are generally moderate.

When I see evidence that can be debunked, or even just seen from a different viewpoint, I will post about it but I don't look at it as trying to convince the poster or even the other people in the discussion. There will be hundreds of people reading your post and if you can educate a few of them it is worthwhile.

Anyway, here is a good site I found recently that takes a more scientific approach and has a very good discussion on orb photos (Orb Zone Theory). ASSAP Site

Wuwei

#4 Laurie Ann

Laurie Ann

    Your imagination IS running off with you!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,025 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:LaPorte, Indiana
  • Interests:I love to do yard work, re-arrange my home constantly, draw and get tattoos that have significant meaning to me, garage sales/yard sales fanatic. My home is haunted by I believe 2 spirits, so I'm never alone when everyone is asleep! I'm trying to label the gifts I have, although I try to keep them a secret from my husband..he wouldn't understand. My 20 year old is now living on his own and does so great! My 6 year old is a little me, and the baby will be 5 December. He's about 8-12 months behind, but that smile...that beautiful smile.

Posted 28 September 2008 - 08:15 AM

~Well, you're definately entitled to your opinion. (thank god for the back-space button)
~Women are angels...and when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We're flexible like that.~

#5 JimDe

JimDe

    Villager

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 299 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

Posted 28 September 2008 - 04:47 PM

I'm glad to have stumbled upon this site. More encouraging is that there is a "Skeptic" section. I like skeptics. But I've got my own ideas about ghosts that meet somewhere in the middle.

I never believed in "ghosts" until I had several personal experiences with them. I'll save those stories for the "haunted stories" board. My big problem with non-skeptics is primarily the following:

1) People believe EVERYTHING is a ghost.
2) Somehow they manage to manufacture actual messages from every unintelligible EVP out there. Vague voice patterns that The Bionic Man couldn't discern become "I AM SATAN AND GET OUT" or whatever they can come up with. Once a phrase is proclaimed by some "expert," the power of suggestion takes over.
3) Orbs. Every orb is surely a ghost to these people. Orbs are all over the family photos from my childhood through adulthood. I'm not buying those run-of-the-mill reflections as being ghosts. The ones that dart about on video is another thing entirely. But I'm not 100% sure of those, either.
4) The biggest peave is that they claim to know the ghosts intentions and what to do to "get rid of them" or "send them into the light." Who are these people determine that "the ghost is unhappy and needs to "cross over" or "they're looking for their lost love." How in the hell do they know?
5) There must be some tragic death associated with a haunting. I can vouch that no death has to take place in the house for a haunting to occur there.

We *need* skeptics in the study of the paranormal because some of us believers are made to look like whack jobs by other fellow believers. It's hard to reconcile with that. I would love for scientific proof to come forth, but I personally don't need it to affirm what I've experienced personally.

Great thread MellowCat, all of your points are excellent ones and IMO dead on. Welcome to GV, I look forward to reading your ‘haunted stories’.

~wuwei, excellent website you’ve posted, many would benefit by visiting. I’ve added it to my favorites so that I can read further when time permits.
Posted Image

#6 Puti

Puti

    Village Elder

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 724 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:stranded in Texas
  • Interests:Interested in life in all it's forms

Posted 29 September 2008 - 10:33 PM

Great post Mellowcat! Did you say, "just thinking...."? That's what it's all about. Welcome to Ghost Village, by the way.
I wondered, when I was a kid, (back in the stone age) what the heck my Dad was talking about as he was always using this quote..."Don't believe anything you hear and half of what you see." When I had my own children,many years later, I surprised my self by saying the same thing to them. It was then it dawned on me that my Dad wanted us to grow up to do our own thinking, and not just blindly follow the crowd and jump on any bandwagon.
Stick around!

Wuwei.....thanks for that web-site. It's in my favorites too. Looks like lots of good info.
"We grow neither better or worse as we get old, but more like ourselves."May L. BeckerCoffee.......the foundation of consciousness

#7 MellowCat

MellowCat

    Member

  • New Member
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 30 September 2008 - 05:26 PM

Thanks very much for your comments & website suggestion. The "sensitive" comment is something that has occurred to me, but I'm still skeptical of many of many of their claims. I most definitely believe in psychics, but again, with temperance. I've had "psychic moments" myself, one of which was very profound. So I can see it being possible to "pick up" on the ghosts' "intentions" but I think a lot of it is ad libbing. Just my opinion.

The use of the back-button won't hurt my feelings, either. :whee:

#8 wuwei

wuwei

    Junior Villager

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts

Posted 30 September 2008 - 06:58 PM

Thanks everyone for the feedback on the site I posted. I've found it to be well put together and quite frankly I was surprised I hadn't seen it before. I actually found it by searching for "trifield data logger" or something equally obscure. :whee:

Mellowcat, I share your concern about psychics/sensitives or whatever. First of all, there are a lot of frauds out there. The psychic profession draws frauds at a rate rivalling financial investment firms. It can be very difficult for most people to tell a cold reader from a real psychic even when dealing with known events like their own life history. Ghosts and hauntings are paranormal and thus very difficult to prove. Psychics (or the use of ouija boards etc to the same end) are the same thing - thus far unproven and can't be taken at face value. So, using one (psychics) to illuminate facts about the other (ghosts) seems to remove things one level too far when looking at phenomena from a scientific perspective. Psychics have hardly proven themselves to be legitimate given all the research over the years (and James Randi would be $1M poorer) and they are a lot more accessible than ghosts. I'm not even saying that psychic events or psychics do not exist. But if there is some way to tell a real psychic from a skilled fraud in a way that would legitimize their use in scientifically oriented ghost research I wish someone would explain it to me.

And then take it to the next level where the smudge squads in black shirts and sunglasses start running around with Ovilus devices talking about exorcising demons, and you can see why serious researchers in this field have trouble being seen as credible professionals. Our small and nascent group has a couple of PhD level research scientists involved (no, I'm not one of them, I sold my soul for a business degree) but we often joke about needing a psychic, or someone who can convincingly play one, for those times when the investigative results are otherwise sparse. :weeee:

A final note - supposed scientifically oriented researchers can be bad as well. Some people get very emotionally attached to their evidence (like photos) - over time they develop a psychological stake in their validity - and will continue to defend the authenticity of the evidence beyond any reasonable degree or data to the contrary.

Wuwei

#9 Señor Hugo

Señor Hugo

    Villager

  • New Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Wayne, Indiana

Posted 30 September 2008 - 08:18 PM

Thanks very much for your comments & website suggestion. The "sensitive" comment is something that has occurred to me, but I'm still skeptical of many of many of their claims. I most definitely believe in psychics, but again, with temperance. I've had "psychic moments" myself, one of which was very profound. So I can see it being possible to "pick up" on the ghosts' "intentions" but I think a lot of it is ad libbing. Just my opinion.

The use of the back-button won't hurt my feelings, either. :whee:


I remain skeptical myself. Most people out there, especially all the ones receiving a paycheck to be psychic(Derek Acorah for instance), or who are promoting a book they just wrote.

"Uh oh, I'm being possessed, I'm being told that you should go out and buy my book "Derek Acorah, Psychic and possessing magnet" only $19.99"

Being sensitive however is really just like riding a bicycle, anyone can do it, it just takes some time to get it down. If you've felt "something" like you saw nothing but knew someone was there, getting tingles down your spine, or your body receiving a pins and needles type effect when something is nearby, then you can call yourself a sensitive really.

Unlike some people believe(and some posts I've seen), it doesn't really make you special, nor are you able to head over to the local cemetery and start chatting it up with the local ghosts, or befriend the ghosts and get them to help you make money by being an exorcist(although that would be awesome, the Frighteners rocked)

It's just like how some people are better at math, others are just better at picking up on different energy fields. But you can train yourself and learn to do it as well.

As for the ad-libbing part. It is sort of that way, when doing an investigation before getting a lot of research done, you kind of have to piece things together yourself. Most legit sensitives may only pick up on feelings, pairing that with what we know or what we've seen, we're able to make an educated guess that the ghost may feel sorry that he clubbed a baby seal, or something to that effect.

Edited by Señor Hugo, 30 September 2008 - 08:20 PM.

"I am the bridge between worlds. I have experienced life, I have experienced death, others and my own. I am a shaman."

#10 Laurie Ann

Laurie Ann

    Your imagination IS running off with you!

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,025 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:LaPorte, Indiana
  • Interests:I love to do yard work, re-arrange my home constantly, draw and get tattoos that have significant meaning to me, garage sales/yard sales fanatic. My home is haunted by I believe 2 spirits, so I'm never alone when everyone is asleep! I'm trying to label the gifts I have, although I try to keep them a secret from my husband..he wouldn't understand. My 20 year old is now living on his own and does so great! My 6 year old is a little me, and the baby will be 5 December. He's about 8-12 months behind, but that smile...that beautiful smile.

Posted 30 September 2008 - 09:13 PM

Thanks very much for your comments & website suggestion. The "sensitive" comment is something that has occurred to me, but I'm still skeptical of many of many of their claims. I most definitely believe in psychics, but again, with temperance. I've had "psychic moments" myself, one of which was very profound. So I can see it being possible to "pick up" on the ghosts' "intentions" but I think a lot of it is ad libbing. Just my opinion.

The use of the back-button won't hurt my feelings, either. :whee:


~I truly respect your opinion...even if I don't agree with you. But like I've always said, to look at it through the eyes of a skeptic (a.k.a non-believer) is giving me another point of view to ponder. And lastly, I like that you have a sense of humor...not all the way, hell-bent science in your face type of person......it's always good to smile. Welcome to GV & thank you for showing me yet another way to look at why I believe in spirits/after-life, and what made me the believer I am. :weeee:
~Women are angels...and when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick. We're flexible like that.~

#11 SeekX

SeekX

    Villager

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 288 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Knoxville TN.

Posted 05 October 2008 - 09:20 PM

I'm glad to have stumbled upon this site. More encouraging is that there is a "Skeptic" section. I like skeptics. But I've got my own ideas about ghosts that meet somewhere in the middle.

I never believed in "ghosts" until I had several personal experiences with them. I'll save those stories for the "haunted stories" board. My big problem with non-skeptics is primarily the following:

1) People believe EVERYTHING is a ghost.
2) Somehow they manage to manufacture actual messages from every unintelligible EVP out there. Vague voice patterns that The Bionic Man couldn't discern become "I AM SATAN AND GET OUT" or whatever they can come up with. Once a phrase is proclaimed by some "expert," the power of suggestion takes over.
3) Orbs. Every orb is surely a ghost to these people. Orbs are all over the family photos from my childhood through adulthood. I'm not buying those run-of-the-mill reflections as being ghosts. The ones that dart about on video is another thing entirely. But I'm not 100% sure of those, either.
4) The biggest peave is that they claim to know the ghosts intentions and what to do to "get rid of them" or "send them into the light." Who are these people determine that "the ghost is unhappy and needs to "cross over" or "they're looking for their lost love." How in the hell do they know?
5) There must be some tragic death associated with a haunting. I can vouch that no death has to take place in the house for a haunting to occur there.

We *need* skeptics in the study of the paranormal because some of us believers are made to look like whack jobs by other fellow believers. It's hard to reconcile with that. I would love for scientific proof to come forth, but I personally don't need it to affirm what I've experienced personally.



In a way I think you are right to think the way you do even though that is not the way I believe , I think skeptics are the best investigators.


The only thing is all of it is up in the air so to speak as there is no Empirical evidence and concrete proof.

Good luck trying I suppose that is the idea but just how is anyone ever going to do that?


SeekX


#12 brucekp

brucekp

    Junior Villager

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tacoma, WA

Posted 06 October 2008 - 02:12 AM

Mellowcat,

Welcome to the board! I would have to agree with you on your points. I'm much more into the scientific side of ghost hunting. I can tell you that five years ago I would have laughed at anyone who mentioned ghosts. Then I started watching Ghosthunters and thought, well this is pretty interesting, but not quite sure. Then a friend and I started doing EVP work at a local mental hospital site, a trolley accident site that killed 43 people in 1900, a old prison site and several cemeteries. We've had a number of Class A EVP's (and many Class B and C too) and when you gather the evidence yourself....you really get one of those "eureka!" moments in your life. I've run into a few psychics...some I believe more than others, but for the most part I'm sort of like Joe Friday from the old Dragnet show. "Just the facts, ma'am..only the facts.."

My friend has posted much of our results on his My Space page at:

http://vids.myspace....8d-3b0fa45610ee
(All of these places are within 50 miles of Tacoma, WA.)

Hope you enjoy your time here!

Bruce
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy-ShakespeareLawmakers are studying the possibilty of banning any independent thought and freedom of choice. quoted by insiders: "We can't rely on our citizens to know what is best for them or their families, therefore we cannot permit people to freely make choices on their own. Any citizen suspected of independent thought shall be detained pending a deportation hearing."

#13 BigMike

BigMike

    Junior Villager

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In the Corn of Iowa

Posted 06 October 2008 - 07:32 AM

I'd like to think that I am skeptical about most things concerning the paranormal, and specifically the whole "orb" thing. I think that having a skeptic or two in a group acts as a control element during an investigation, provided they are not out right nay-sayers.

Keeping and open mind, on both sides of the fence is the best in my opinion.

BTW Welcome to the board MellowCat, great thread!
Live every day as if it was your last, it could well be.

#14 Michiman

Michiman

    Junior Villager

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 31 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:30 AM

I'm a big skeptic myself. But, I am very fascinated by the paranormal nonetheless. I joined a local group, and I'm hoping to maybe witness some things for myself. It's a great group. They aren't quick to jump to the conclusion a location is haunted, and try hard to find a logical explanation. I've been on a few hunts, one a battlefield which we took hundreds of photos, and had one we couldn't explain, and another in a private 150 year old home. I haven't seen anything yet to make me say yep, I believe. But it's interesting looking.
Motor City Ghost HuntersMCGH forum"Shoot for the curb, and everything above it is gravy" James P. Connolly

#15 tommyhancock

tommyhancock

    Junior Villager

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 81 posts

Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:02 AM

i agree with the original post 100%.when it comes to this type of believer things get ridiculous.but i would like to add in defense to believers (which i am) that there are skeptics to extreme too.in my experience i have met far more skeptics who will look at lets say,100 pictures that are all unexplained by science who will claim every single picture is not a ghost "no way its a ghost ghosts arent real" and they wont budge no matter what, not even to say "i dont know",which is far from defeat since no one knows.sure there exists believers who will think all 100 are ghosts as well,but unless i just happened upon the largest group of logical believers that are as of yet undiscovered by anyone else,and likewise the largest group of ridiculous skeptics,a believer who refuses to admit that some of the pictures might be something else is far less rare than a set in stone skeptic with a made up mind who will say"i guess its possible but i still dont think so.
i myself am a believer because i have seen things that would be undoubtable to anyone else who had seen them.im all about debate though,i dont expect my personal events to constitute as proof or evidence,so i dont throw them in as either.

as far as the sensitive/psychic thing,it has been suggested that i may be one.i have gone into a house and spoken to a voice,it is not a physical voice,its hard to explain,and i have asked it to move on.afterwards the people living in this house report that its far happier and there are no more signs of said ghosts.i have also for fun faked it at a friends house(wouldnt do this if it was an investigation)results?IDENTICAL. did i actually exorcise a spirit from the other place?i have no clue,i personally highly doubt it,but its possible.i dont feel i have this ability.
also i think sure its possible that some may possess these traits,but i proved atleast to myself how similar the real deal would be to a fake if faked properly.that said if anyone was on an investigation with me,"psychic/medium" or average joe,i would take their gut feelings into consideration equally and look into their claims.if the psychic claims show unarguably more results than the average joes,then were getting somewhere




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users