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Vampires, real or myth?


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#1 whispers_of_fire

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 06:40 PM

Happy Halloween ;D
So what do you all think are there people who need blood, due to some freak amino acid deficiency*unable to break down
iron in more conventional forms, they must take blood*insert Bela Lagossi accent here :)*in the case of a sanguinary, is there a weakness or flaw in the chakras for sexual or psi vamps, is it simply a fetish or is it simply a matter of an old wife's tail that survived the dark ages of superstition???

One of the most known vampires was Vlad Tepes, a Wallechian knight of the 16th century. Vlad, like many of his countrymen were called to war when the Ottoman Turks swept into Eastern Europe, seized Constantinople to protect the Church. Vlad by all accounts was a masterful tactician and formidable warrior, though there were some problems. Since there was an allegiance to the Church, nobles were obligated to fly the dragon of the Greek Orthodox Church above their own standards, Vlad*also a title equating with Prince*refused to have the church's dragon above the bat of Wallechia. During his campaign he also favored slow execution, impaling.

Was his rep as a Vampyr a truthful thing, had he been cursed by the church to become a monster preying upon living blood? Did the blood have a special or mystical-even religious- significance? Or were these rumors seeded by rivals jealous over his success or even a church that feared his growing popularity as a Voevud or war leader or even reprisals from the Turks??

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#2 MoonChild

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Posted 31 October 2003 - 07:16 PM

[color=red]One of the most known vampires was Vlad Tepes, a Wallechian knight of the 16th century.


Yup, Vlad was the most famous Vampire reference. But I also came upon an information that states there was a Russian Prince in 1047 and the reference Vampire was FIRST made on him. He was called Upir Lichy in Russain that transalates to Wicked Vampire.


and also some I found in a web site......

evidence of the vampire tale can be found with the ancient Chaldeans in Mesopotamia, near the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers, and with Assyrian writings on clay or stone tablets. The land of the Chaldeans is also called the "Ur of the Chaldeans," which was the original home of Abraham from the Bible.

"Lilith" was a possible vampire from the ancient Hebrew Bible and its interpretations. Although she is described in the book of Isaiah, her roots are more likely in Babylonian demonology. Lilith was a monster who roamed at night taking on the appearance of an owl. She would hunt, seeking to kill newborn children and pregnant women. Lilith was the wife of Adam before there was Adam and Eve, according to tradition; but she was demonized because she refused to obey Adam. (Or to see it from a more liberated viewpoint, she demanded equal rights with Adam). Naturally, she was considered evil for such "radical" desires and became a vampire who eventually attacked the children of Adam and Eve -- namely, all human descendants.

http://www.parascope.../vampires02.htm

[color=red]Did the blood have a special or mystical-even religious- significance?


Blood has religious significance because it is the "living" factor. :) There exists in every religion a ritual that can be connected to blood. Blood, since it enriches the LIFE, is considered the "representative" of life and wellness. Most of the diseases are also considered to exist because of the blood impurification. The sourse can be elsewhere, but in almost all the diseases, it affects the blood and it's consituents.
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#3 hawkerdriver

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 02:54 PM

You're right about Lilith, however I wasn't aware that she was further translated into a vampire.  She and Adam were both formed from earth and were equal.  She,however,(and I'm not kidding about this) refused to be 'on bottom' during intercourse which irked Adam and he thus complained to God.  God had to do something to satisfy Adam's temper tantrum and turned Lilith into a seductive spirit that preyed upon unsupecting men into erotic fantasies.  Your account of her turning into a vampire and preying on children is a new one on me. Wow.  Didn't know.
And yeah, I just read the account from the website you posted and I gotta point out that it says that she was a "possible" first vampire.  
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#4 Gregory

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 03:25 PM

One of the most known vampires was Vlad Tepes, a Wallechian knight of the 16th century.


Vlad Tepes wasn't a vampire.  And I don't just mean because vampires, in the supernatural sense, almost certainly didn't exist; I say that Vlad Tepes wasn't a vampire simply because drinking blood was never among the varied attrocities that he commited.  It's not even obvious that Dracula was based on Tepes in any way except his name.

And can anyone tell me the difference between a vampire and a vampyr?  Is there one?
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#5 Willow

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Posted 01 November 2003 - 05:24 PM

Hey Whispers...great topic, have been obsessed by any and all things 'vampire' since I was a child and know theres alot of definitions to vampirism, when it comes to Vlad, I dont believe he was a vampire, not in the supernatural sense either, though its never stated that hes the inspiration or the bases of Stoker's Dracula...theres strong evidence he was:

    The fictional Dracula and the historical Dracula share the same name. There can be no doubt that Bram Stoker based his character upon some reference to Vlad Dracula.
Stoker researched various sources prior to writing the novel, including the Library at Whitby and literature from the British Museum. It is entirely possible that his readings on Balkan history would have included information about Vlad Tepes.
Stoker was the friend of a Hungarian professor from Budapest, named Arminius Vambery, who he met personally on several occasions and who may have given him information about the historical Dracula.
Some of the text of Stoker’s novel provides direct correlations between the fictional Dracula and Vlad Tepes (e.g., the fighting off of the Turks--also, the physical description of Dracula in the novel is very similar to the traditional image of Vlad Tepes.).
Other references in the novel may also be related to the historical Dracula. For example, the driving of a stake through the vampire’s heart may be related to Vlad’s use of impalement; Renfield’s fixation with insects and small animals may have found inspiration in Vlad’s penchant for torturing small animals during his period of imprisonment; and Dracula’s loathing of holy objects may relate to Vlad’s renunciation of the Orthodox Church.

There is another side to that for the skeptics, a great website about Vlad and the vampire myth: www.donlinke.com/drakula/vlad.htm


Vampyr is just the European spelling of vampire
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#6 whispers_of_fire

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 07:19 AM

I have to agree that I don't think Vlad Tepes was a Vampire, though I wouldn't be surprised if the Vamp thing wasn't kind of a slander campaign thing from either a rival noble "Oh, yes, he's a terrible child of Our Holy Mother~look how disobediant he was that the Church's Dragon should not be pooping upon the bat of his Wallechia~Oh, and I almost forgot, he drinks blood, too." Snickers*I'm not entirely sure though that Tepes didn't use the old legends himself to terrify his own vassals and rivals, given the uncertainty of the times.

As for Lilith, I'd say she was more of a sexual Vamp, since
she also is accredited with being mother to the Succubi and Incubi, according to the legends.

I think most ancient cultures had a Vampire myth, the Greeks
had the Vryoukolas and the ancient Egyptians had Sekhmet, Ra's lion headed daughter who went after wrongdoers and Blasphemers, known also for drinking blood

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#7 OwlGoddess

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 07:43 AM

it's interesting how most cultures - regardless of contact - have some kind of paralell to the vampire brand of horrible creature.  something about a thing that symbolically or literally drains one's "essence"  is equated with evil or the un-natural  (before medical science came about blood was the foci of all good and bad "humors").

in cherokee myth, a number of vampire - like creatures exist.  many rural cherokees and elders still believe in these creatures, which have been part of their mythology for centuries.

there are zombies or blood suckers known simply as "night walkers," that will kill unsuspecting travellers that are on their way by night.  evil witches morph into great horned owls and carry their victims off to eat them, and then morph back into human form by morning.

[the witch / great horned owl is differentiated from the screech owl and so-called "hoot" owl by their purpose:  screech owls are messengers from the world of the dead and communicate to the shamans and medicine people... to the common cherokee the screech owl is a portend of death, although more accurately it's a symbol for change.  the hoot owl is the angel of death that carries the good souls to the paradise beyond and relieves the suffering of life - it was said that the hoot owl was always following the line of marchers on the trail of tears.]

however, the most fearsome night creature of the cherokees was the RAVENMOCKER, called so because it took the form of a man or woman, sprouted black raven's wings, and flew into the night sky fooling all of humanity and making them think it was a common raven.  the ravenmocker is a supernatural being who was once human, and has an insatiable lust for blood - in particular, they are feared to eat the heart of a living person without breaking the skin.  

primarily, ravenmockers are said to prey on the elderly and the sick, but old shaman's tales recall instances where a ravenmocker was called by a cherokee witch or wizard to eat the heart of a rival.  

unlike your conventional western vampire myth, the ravenmocker can only be killed by a special shaman or witch or female medicine woman who was born with the ability to see the ravenmocker for what it is and kill it simply by shouting at it....

...according to my great grandfather, i am one of these people.  kind of the "von helsing" of the cherokee pantheon of myth.  although i have experienced the "owl communication" phenomena (linked to communication with the dead) i have yet to see a ravenmocker.  apparently they don't like urban areas.

***

i sincerely believe that like many other things, vampirism is a fetishistic belief that is more symbol than science... although it's mighty sexy.

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#8 Justa

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 10:36 AM

I cannot confirm the accuracy of this, but what I have found points to almost every culture having some kind of vampire myth, including vampire foxes in Japan, and the Penanggalang in Malaysia, a rather hideous creature.  It is believed that the original vampiric myths were brought to Europe from the far East via trade caravans, and quickly spread throughout the continent.  
    Bram Sroker's dracula is widely regarded to be based on Vlad lll Dracula(Tepes the Impaler).  The word Dracula is also derived from his father, who was given the nickname "Dracul".  In Romanian, Dracul means "the devil", and the "Ulea" indicates a relation, I believe.  Therefore, Dracula meant "Son of the Devil".  There is another theory that purports that the name comes from when Vlad ll was invested with the Order of the Dragon, a knightly order.  The emblem was a dragon, which loosely translated to "drac", and was the symbol of the devil.  Either way, Vlad III, still comes out as Dracula, son of the devil.
    And of course, who can think of vampires and not think of bats.  (Maybe just me  ;D ) How did bats and vampires become associated together?  The 16th century Spanish conquistadors came into contact with a certain breed of bat that feasted on the blood of animals, and noticed a similarity between the way the bats fed, and the legends of vampires.  It did not take long for the legend to become widespread.
    As for whether vampires are real or mythical.  There definitely are modern day "conditions" that would mimic the vampire, such as photophobia.  There are also people who practice certain methodologies, such as drinking fresh blood, in order to absorb energy from it.  I believe vampires do exist... the question is, to what level?
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#9 a10182

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 11:42 AM

you can classify people as vampires but they are not real the ones that turn into bats and bite people for there blood(i dont think)

#10 Gregory

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 01:05 PM

I sincerely believe that like many other things, vampirism is a fetishistic belief that is more symbol than science... although it's mighty sexy.


'cause you know there's nothing sexier than having pale men in capes lunging for your jugular...
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#11 OwlGoddess

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 01:50 PM

well, the popularity of barnabas collins on the 1960's soap DARK SHADOWS is definately proof of the vampire's sex appeal!

(not to mention all those pale-skinned goth rockers me and my friends used to drool over in the 1980s...)

hee hee!  

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#12 hawkerdriver

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 02:39 PM

The movies have always protrayed Dracula as a sexy seducteror (spelling), blurring the lines between sexuality and evil.  I dunno, but nowadays someone who still is drinking blood is sick, sick, sick, YECCCHHHH!!! (Sorry if I offended anyone, I'm sorry but I just can't deal with this, ughhhh!) :) :-X
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#13 OwlGoddess

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 02:59 PM

yes, i should qualify that:  white skin and black hair (or whatever racial equivalent you want to add to that) with stylish wardrobe and suave sexy manners will go a long way -- when it comes to drinking blood or inflicting actual harm on other people, that is definately not cool... on stage fake is okay.  off stage real is not!!

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#14 Justa

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 03:58 PM

I wonder if the attraction is because the vampire typically has been portrayed as a dark well groomed gentleman, with deep penetrating eyes.  He exudes a quiet confidence in all he says and does, has a foreign accent, and has an aire of superiority about him.  Also look at where he bites his victims.  First they carefully show the neck being exposed and extended...then he pricks the blood vessel and sucks on the neck, one of the erogenous zones.  Yes, Hollywood has really added to the overall romanticism and sexuality of vampires.  

I am curious to know if anybody has had any experiences with vampires?
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#15 Willow

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Posted 03 November 2003 - 04:37 PM

*Raises hand* me me me...I have talked to and made friends with self proclaimed 'vamps' and though the idea of being feasted upon for blood turns the stomach of many, to those who do it, it represents life and intimacy..(not my idea of an intimate act might I add but to each their own)Its so important to note that the ones giving blood are just that..donors, not victims. I must say the ones ive gotten to know, do fall into the same catagory alot of the time...either they are the unwanted by their family types, looking to fit in or just very creative, latching onto the dark, mysterious, sensual side that vampirism gives to them.
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