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No real experts


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#31 Laurie Ann

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Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:23 AM

*wipes sweat from forehead*

Whew......ok, everything is ok now...............but man that was CA-LOSE!!!
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#32 JimDe

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:28 AM

Hello. I have posted many things on this site having to do with evidence, stories, etc. Being that there are no real experts in this field, just ones that have done this type of thing more then others and ones using more high tech equipment then others. There are alot of things said about pictures, videos, evp and other things associated with the paranormal and really all you get are people's opinions and sometimes sarcasm. I will say there are those out there that like to fake pictures, videos, evp, etc and that makes it look bad for the real captures that are done. With that being said, how can anybody do any more then just offer their opinions, sarcasm or whatever else they offer on this topic? My point of view on mostly all things, you never really know what is real or not real unless you are there to experience it first hand, just like any other person, that is my opinion. Also, I am a believer, just to make that clear.Thoughts?

I think you make a valid and interesting point here; this thread started out as a serious one and I think I can understand why you might be getting a little miffed. But hey WTF, it's free internet right? I guess you gotta keep in mind that you get what you pay for... including expert opinions.

Evidence can be complicated and is also subjective to scrutiny, IMO you really have got to do your own homework on what is and what is not paranormal. Paranormal means it has to be different, if a hundred people have what you have then it's not paranormal (IMO), others may feel differently.

Edited by JimDe, 09 January 2009 - 12:29 AM.

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#33 canuck

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 07:41 PM

Definition of an expert:

"Someone who knows more and more about less and less until he knows all there is to know about absolutely nothing".

At first glance this definition seems pretty funny; but when you think about it, it is actually quite profound.

It is unfortunately true that we live in times in which knowledge is highly specialised and compartmentalised. Those people who possess such specialised knowledge, in effect, live in an intellectual tunnel.

The practical effect is that such experts see only that which is contained within that tunnel, and are unable to see or conceptualise anything outside this "tunnel"; their broader view is constrained.

Similarly, their professional interactions are almost exclusively with other people in the same tunnel, and consequently their intellectual development takes them ever deeper into the same tunnel, at the expense of a broader view of the world.

The consequence of this tunnel vision is that when such experts are faced with a concept or data which does not comfortably lie within their tunnel, they are intellectually unable to process this information. This situation is referred to as "cognitive dissonance", and the usual response is for the person to ridicule and dismiss the new concepts.

In other words, many experts have an intellectual arrogance which is not limited by their ignorance.

There is ample evidence from the history of science which substantiates this: many ideas which are now considered self evident, were dismissed and ridiculed by the "experts" of the time.

Similarly, the history of science is replete with examples of world renowned experts who faked or suppressed data which contradicted their closely held ideas. So ethics are seen as an optional and flexible commodity when ideas clash.

The significance of all this is that everybody should exercise caution when faced with "experts". Their opinions should be weighed and considered carefully, and one should not be afraid to argue with an "expert".

Keep in mind the old adage:

"If all you want is a normal screw up, then it is better to do it yourself. If you want a major cluster BAD_WORD, bring in an expert."

Edited by MoonChild, 10 January 2009 - 10:10 AM.


#34 OMPRDave

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 02:04 PM

I don't know about all of what you are saying. Sometimes staying focused on what is proven is the only way to observe other things. Other times it's not. Let's take some other science - say, heart surgery. How outside the box do you want your surgeon to be thinking when doing a routine bypass surgery? If he thinks a little too outside the standards and known applications, you might end up with your aorta sewn to your anus.

Paranormal research NEEDS outside thinking. We're sitting stagnant right now with alot of technology that's getting us absolutely nowhere, mainly because the technology is being used in ways it was never meant to be used, or technology is being used that has limitations, such as audio recording, video recording, or photography and normal anomalies created by ignoring these limitations and rules are being thought of as paranormal. A camera will only do one thing - record the light in front of it onto a medium like film or a CCD. Many of the ideas floating around about spirits imprinting energy into photos is just so much superstition for the basic fact that a camera doesn't do that. That is one example of thousands out there now.

I have no problem with calling somebody an expert if they have taken the time to practice and learn their field of expertise and practice it rigorously. I have a background in photography, but I will occasionally ask somebody who is an accredited photographer or dark room specialist what they think of a photo I have, and because of their knowledge and expertise I take their explanation and learn from it. Yeah, I see alot LESS paranormal stuff in my photos now, but that's a good thing.

When it comes to paranormal researchers, investigators, or ghost hunters, however, one fact rings true:

THERE ARE NO EXPERTS. PERIOD.

There may be people who understand the superstitions better. People who study the religious aspects. Occultists. But at the end of the day, it's all still speculation. Applying what we do know properly and documenting what we find will help us inch closer to understanding what is going on (paranormally speaking), and to do that we need to accept that there are applied technologies with rigid rules. If we ignore these, the results we get are worthless (though sometimes amazing).
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer

#35 Grim Undertakings

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:22 AM

Referring to Caverat's posts #9, #21, and OMPRDave's posts #20, and #34 I must say well said and I couldn't agree more!!

Ah, it's good to be back. :)




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